95

H.—2l

G. KING

When they are pretty nearly idle the chances are that mischief is concocted which would not be the case if they were better employed. 19. Did you find the girls, when they were at your place and to a certain extent away from discipline, badly behaved ?—I have not. 20. And you have had the whole school there?— Yes. 21. Mr. Salter.] What opportunities had you of taking notice'of the internal - management here ?—Not so much probably as the female Visitors. 22. But you have expressed your opinion pretty- freely as to the management here by Mrs. Branting. How- do you arrive at it ? —lt is difficult to say. I saw perfect contentment, perfect cleanliness, no apparent harshness, and no oppressive work for'the girls. 23. I suppose, as a matter of fact, your opportunities for investigating the internal management were few ? —As a male Visitor I could not have had more opportunities than I had. 24. You know something about the management of girls, having reared a family : would you suggest that corporal punishment is likely to benefit girls? —I am very proud to say I have reared my family without touching them, but I am willing to admit at once that circumstances mayalter cases. Personally, lam no advocate of corporal punishment. 25. Under what circumstances do you think it is necessary to administer corporal punishment to a girl?—lt is only to adopt the lesser of two evils. For instance, I think hair-cutting, if it is to prevent a girl running away, is the lesser of the two evils. 26. You spoke about the girls having more to do : do you know what their duties are during the day? —Yes, the Matron used to tell me they had certain duties to perform. 27. You know they are at school for two hours in the morning and some for two hours in the afternoon, and do outside work such as tree-felling? —Yes. I suppose the tree-felling is a joke. 28. And they have to dig up the lupins and attend to the garden. What more do you suggest they should do ?—A great deal more. I would probably give them more congenial work. 29. You know they have domestic duties also to perform?—So much the better for them. 30. Would you keep the girls going at work from morning to night?—My opinion of the manual work done in this place by the whole forty or fifty girls is that it would not have occupied an ordinary man about the place. 31. You said without hesitation that the Matron performed her work remarkably well : how did you form that opinion?— From the general surroundings. 32. Do you know anything about the general treatment of the girls?—l do not know the detailed treatment. 33. Then, as a matter of fact, you really do not know very much in detail about the management : you have only formed a general opinion?—l do not know the details of the management. I used to come over here occasionally and play ping-pong of an evening. I noticed that every time the Matron was as anxious as possible that as many of the girls as possible should come in, and the girls were always delighted to come. There were no signs of oppression. I may say that, while I have every respect for the Matron, I would like to say I am not here to speak in the interests of any individual, but in the interests of the Home. Sarah Elizabeth Jackson examined on oath. 1. Mr. Russell.] I think you are Manager of the industrial school at Auckland? —Yes. 2. For how long?—I have completed by twenty-fifth year in that school. 3. How many girls have you? —About 160 on the roll, and an average of thirty in residence. 4. What are the ages of these girls? —The girls belonging to the institution range from nine months old to nearly twenty years. 5. I think some of your girls are sent here?— Yes; when I find them incorrigible they are sent on here. 6. Do you know whether that is the practice at the other industrial schools? —I believe it is the same. 7. So that the class of girls they get in this Home are these incorrigibles?—Yes. 8. Have you been at this Home before? —Yes; I think this is my third visit. 9. Have you afterwards come in touch with any of the girls you have sent here as being incorrigible?— Yes. I remember one particularly, because I met her quite recently. After she had come of age she went back to relatives near Auckland, and she came to see me, and I was very much struck at the change in her. She was "altered in manner. She said she was not at all the girl she had been, and was very thankful she had been taken in hand in time, and that she intended to do what was right, and lead a good life. Since then she has married very well indeed, and is doing well. 10. You are satisfied, from your own knowledge, that that girl received great benefit here? — Very great benefit. I did not think it possible she could reform as she has done. 11. You think her reformation was a real reformation? —There is no doubt about it. 12. Have you seen any other girl you can remember? —There is one girl now in service whom I considered incorrigible. I hear very good accounts of her. There is another girl here, and I am quite surprised to find she has really turned over a new leaf. I never send any girls here unless I consider them incorrigible. 13. Have any of the girls who have been here written to you about the Home?— The girls write to me freely from here, and, judging from the style of their letters, they are not prevented from writing exactly what they like. They also write to me from service. 14. Do they speak generally in good terms of the Matron and the Home?— Very kindly of the Matron. If they had any complaints to make lam sure they would have made them to me. 15. Can you draw any inference from these letters as to their present modes of life—as to whether they have been benefited?—l do not know of any case of any girl I have sent here who has not benefited by the training.