H.—2l.

96

S. E. JACKSON.

16. I want to ask your opinion as to whether you think it is possible to conduct this institution, or anything like it, without some form of corporal punishment up to a certain age?— There must be corrective discipline, because the girls are ill balanced in mind, and have no self-control and no affections, and the first step towards the reformation of character must be self-control. Corrective discipline is absolutely necessary before they will make any effort. Ihey have not reasoned sufficiently, and their moral sense is lying dormant, and you cannot reach them through the affections. 17. Do you find in your school that it is necessary to administer corporal punishment in some form or another ?—Yes. " Personally, I dislike to administer corporal punishment to the elder girls, but when they are so refractory I send them to Te Oranga. 18 Supposing a girl is persistently impudent before all the others, what do you suggest could be done to that girl, assuming her to be under eighteen years of age?—Of course, it would depend very much upon the character and disposition of the girl; but removing her from the others is the first step. . ~ . . . . ... 19 Then, after you have put her into a classification where the discipline is more rigid, it she still defies' you, and even assaults the attendants, can you suggest any form of punishment to take the place of corporal punishment?—No, I cannot see as a final resort what could be done. I know of nothing else. . ~ 20 In your opinion, would it be a wise thing for the Legislature to give the Stipendiary Magistrate power to order that such a girl should be kept in the Home for an indeterminate period, instead of being discharged at twenty-one, as at present?—l think in some cases, where a girl could be classified as morally insane, that for her own sake and for the sake of the community it would be better to give her an indeterminate sentence. 21. Supposing that the Magistrate was of opinion that a girl when she reached the age of twenty-one would go on the streets and become the lowest form of prostitute, do you think it would be justifiable on the part of the Government to give the Magistrate power to keep that girl under the jurisdiction of the Home for an indeterminate period?— Yes, if all due regard is given to justice so far as the girl is concerned. ...'•» 22. That would be a matter for the Magistrate, on the evidence brought before him t— Yes, assuming that. . . . 23 Do you think such a power in the hands of the Magistrates would strengthen the administration of these Homes very much?— Most decidedly. I can hardly speak from experience as to that because my girls, if they are incorrigible, always leave me about sixteen or seventeen. ' '24 But you think it would strengthen the hands of the administration if a girl knew she might be so kept?—l think very possibly it would in the case of a girl coming into the Matron's hands about eighteen years of age. 25 With regard to girls who abscond themselves and try to take others with them, and make an appointment to go straight to a house of ill-fame, do you think such girls should or should not receive corporal punishment on their return not merely as a punishment, but to deter others from doing the same thing?—lf every other punishment has failed, rather than let a girl go to destruction like that I would advise it. It is most certainly the lesser of two evils. 26 Have you been through the Home since your visit? —Yes. 27 Have you seen the inmates?— Yes. I talked to two of the girls freely. They had not been behaving very well, and I asked Mrs. Branting if she would allow me to talk with them. Of course, this inquiry has had a very bad influence on the inmates. I have felt it in Auckland, and it is very detrimental to their best interests. _.._'• ~ • 28. You have even found that influence reach as far as Auckland? —Yes; and it brings their weaknesses, and so on, before the notice of the public. 29 And from what you can see, have the girls here any legitimate cause for complaint, except that they are not allowed "to leave?—l do not think they have at all. I rather agree with Mr. King, that if Mrs. Branting errs at all it is on the side of leniency. 30. Mr. Salter.] In regard to corporal punishment, you are aware that there is a maximum fixed under the regulations? —Yes. _ ...... ~ 31 Would you consider that the Matron would be justified m any case m administering the maximum number of strokes?—l have to do with much younger children, and naturally I do-not give the maximum number; but I haye to give fairly severe punishments. 32. Then, except in a very bad case, you would feel the maximum number should not be given? —In* such a bad case as that I should probably send them to Te Oranga. These extreme cases do not come under mv notice. , 33. Would you be in favour of attendants administering punishment?—l prefer to do d myself. . .... .. , , ~ 34. And in any case an attendant who punishes an inmate should immediately report the matter to the Matron?— That does not arise in Auckland. I have had no experience of it. 35. The Commissioner.] You do not allow any punishment by any person other than your--36. Mr. Salter.] Do you approve of hair-cutting? —I do not see anything in that you could disapprove of exactly. It is to prevent a girl going away, and to make it easier for the police to trace her if she gets away, and would any one say these girls ought not to be traced as quickly as possible, and anything that tends to that'end will surely not be disapproved of. 37. But it is practically a mutilation? —Oh, dear me, no. That is not how a girl would look at it. Of course, they do not like it being done, but we have to consider what it is done for. 38. With regard to economy in the management of an institution like this, what do you think of diluting the golden syrup ? Mr. Russell: It will save time if I say we do not justify it. It was an oversight,