HYDRO-ELECTRIC POWER.

Taranaki Daily News, 7 September 1921, Page 5

HYDRO-ELECTRIC POWER.

NEED FOR SURVEY. DISCUSSED AT PUBLIC MEETING. LOOKING TO THE FUTURE. SURVEY ASKED FOR. The question of whether a survey should be made to ascertain what are the possibilities of securing further water to augment the New Plymouth hydro-electric scheme has been constantly before the public in the last few weeks. It was again discussed at a public meeting last night, following the Borough Council’s decision not to make the survey. The interest which is being taken in this matter was reflected in the large attendance, about 150 being present, and the number was fully representative of business and commercial interests and the general body of ratepayers.

Mr. C. Carter (convenor of the meeting), who was voted to the chair, expressed gratification at the fact that such a large number had assembled to hear the merits of the proposal discussed. As to the reasons for calling the meeting, he said it would be remembered that a deputation had waited on the council asking that, a survey be made investigating the possibilities of securing more power, but the request had been turned down. Following this decision a meeting of the executive of the Ratepayers’ Association was called, when it was decided to call the general meeting to review the position. The ratepayers were most anxious that the fullest explanation should be made available as to why the council had rejected the proposal. At the same time they appreciated the difficulties which confronted the borough, and also the desirability that prudence should be exercised in the spending of the £170,000 which was involved in the present scheme; it was by no means an easy task they had to face. The total scheme, however, would cost about £280,000, and he thought that in view of its magnitude the request for a survey was a proper one; it would at least disclose the possibilities, or limitations, of the power resources, not only for the present, but for the future.

USE FOR THE POWER. The ratepayers were of opinion that, whatever the quantity of power available, it would all be put into use. It might be argued that the present scheme would do for ten or fifteen years, but their knowledge of hydro-electric undertakings went to show that in practically all cases enlargement of the schemes was necessary before long; that would be the position in New Plymouth, for the town was not standing still, and, in fact, to-day the district occupied a premier position in New Zealand. The Borough Council had stated that one reason which made it difficult to accede to the request was that they did not want to delay the present operations. It was also the wish of the ratepayers that the scheme should be brought to fruition as quickly as possible. In this connection Mr. Carter pointed out that No 2 tui\nel, which was now being driven, had been carried 64 chains, at the larger size, and he thought it might be continued in this manner while the survey was being made. He understood there were some 50 chains yet to be driven, which would take about nine months. Assuming that three months elapsed during the survey, driving the tunnel at the extra size during that period would cost the ratepayers about £6OO. If it was found that sufficient power was not available, the tunnel could then be tapered off, while, on the other hand, if the investigations disclosed further available power the council would have done a very wise thing in having the tunnel constructed at the larger size, and no time would be wasted. In concluding, Mr. Carter expressed the hope that the discussion would be carried on freely and in a good spirit. EXPLANATION BY MR. BLAIR MASON.' Opinions on the engineering aspect were given by Mr. Blair Mason, consulting engineer to the council. He prefaced his remarks by stating that he had made a special trip from the north in order to be present, at the meeting. He said he had been really astonished to find that the council had decided not to have a further investigation made as to the resources of the mountain. When he had been called in in 1918 to report on a scheme promulgated by one of the council’s officers he took it upon himself to make some investigations of the rivers; it was a report upon a report, and the result of these partial investigations convinced him that much more power could be obtained from the Waiwakaiho than had been thought of. It was a hurried report, as the council were anxious to push on with the work; but he made a proposal similar to what he was advocating now, and that the council of that time thought very much as he did was shown by the fact that they adopted a scheme called DI, sufficient to carry a mean flow of 150 cubic feet per second. INCREASING THE POWER. 1 Coming to the purpose of the meeting, Mr. Blair Mason asked what reasons had they for expecting that they could increase the power from the Waiwakaiho? They did not know what sources were available on this side of the mountain. On the south side the position could be seen practically by looking at it; there did not seem to be much chance of providing storage or gathering up streams into the one unit. On the north side the conditions were different ; they had a large area of country to explore, where there were other streams adjacent to the Waiwakaiho, which might be harnessed for augmenting the power scheme. It had been felt that New Plymouth had the handle of things; there was a considerable amount of jealousy, and even an envious spirit, that they should have such good fortune. It was a vital matter that the power on this side of the mountain should be developed. Before giving any figures, surveys were necessary, but he had done enough work to convince him that certain things were feasible in connection with the extension of the power scheme; he did not say he had discovered the best way, and possibly a survey would disclose a better method. He had advised the council to the electrical engineer’s report, and to make the surveys which would set at rest the question of the expenditure necessary to do these works. RAISING THE MINIMUM FLOW. Mr. Blair Mason said he believed the question had been raised that the quantity of water that would come through into the Waiwakaiho from the Mangorei basin would be insignificant. In turning in these additional streams, however, they raised the minimum flow, which was a good thing, and if they could get additional storage they accomplished the same object. First of all some idea had to be obtained a& to JR’hfthM the WM avail-

able, and, if so, how it could be fed certain streams. He had found that the Mangawarra stream could be diverted into it by a short tunnel, 450 feet in length, and this would provide a good flow. These proposals would have to wait until the present schemes were finished. PROVISION FOR STORAGE. In emphasising that storage was an important feature, Mr. Blair Mason said that the Mangahao output depended on thia method, and in New Plymouth they had better resources than at Mangahao. He had mentioned turning the Mangorei into the Mangam ah oe basin, but there were other important sources of power. Mr. and some visiting engineers of high standing ‘ had spent a week exploring the ranges, and their investigations included the possibilities of the Stony River; the party were quite pleased with what they saw on the trip, and there did not seem to be anything in the way to hinder using thia source. He was not going to commit himself, however, till a survey was made, and it was worth while, as there were. features about it that possibly would be of great moment to the council. Three months would be sufficient in which to make the investigations, and the ratepayers woyM then know what the resources were. Mr. Parry, the former Government ®n« gineer, had, he said, not sufficient information about the New Plymouth resources, and the statement had been made that no further power was available beyond that already being utilised by the Borough Council. In the present instance a survey would be a simple matter, and it would not be costly; the result would be to let the people of New Plymouth know the position was, as well as to give information to the residents of South Taranaki, who were looking to this end of the district to sup* ply power. They had been assured by thd Government hat the scheme would provide the necessary current. THE ENGINEER QUESTIONED. Mr. J. O. Taylor enquired as t<| where Mr. Mason expected to get the money, to carry out the survey. The chairman: ‘That is a question fo< the council.” Mr. Taylor: “The council have told w| over and over again that they have not any.”

Mr. Blair Mason replied that he was only asking that the council should satisfy themselves in the matter. He bad given them sufficient encouragement to go on. Answering further questions, the consulting engineer said there was not the slightest doubt that the present tunnel would be large enough to feed the proposed increase in power.

In reply to Mr. A. Morton, Mr. Blair Mason said that he had never followed the Mangorei stream to the ranges, but he had tapped it in several places, and from levels he had taken knew that it could be thrown into the Mang&mahoe basin.

Mr, S. G. Smith wished to know whether, by bringing the Mangorei into the Mangamahoe, water could be obtained for an additional 3000 h.p. that could not be got through the smaller tunnel

CAPACITY OF THE SCHEME. Mr. Blair Mason said that he was not responsible for saying that the scheme was a 9000 h.p. one, but provided 200 cusecs could be obtained by storage, or other means, it could bo brought up to 9000 h.p., and it therefore seemed wise to make a tunnel that could take up to 200 cusecs. It had been stated, and was apparently correct, that the minimum flow of the river was 150 cusecs, which would develop 6000 h.p. on a 45 per cent, load factor, and with the proposed storage they could develop 9000 h.p., if the river were at its minimum for ten days. The question was how long would it maintain that minimum? That showed the need, therefore, for a thorough investigation. He urged on the council the necessity for ascertaining if other storage basins were available, and had pointed out the Upper Mangojiei as a! uitable field.

Mr. W. H. Skinner asked if any ideal could be given of the cost of the dam! in the present scheme, so that they (wiild have an idea of the cost of another dam, conceding tliat another stor* age basin could be found in the Mangamahoe. Mr. Blair Mason pointed out that this was a difficult question, as it mostly depended on the price of labor. He had estimated the present dam at £21,000 with labor at 8s or 9s per day, but labor had since increased, nnd when they came to got estimates it wa® found that it would probably cost double that amount.

Mr. Kibby asked what amount oB power could be obtained on a 100 per cent, load factor.

Mr. Blair Mason said that if they worked on a full peak load all the time no system of storage would avail, because they would he drawing on their water all the time. To give an idea he pointed out that 4000 h.p. all the time would lie equivalent to 8800 on a 45 per cent, load factor. He stressed the point that •the country about the present scheme was worth thorough investigation. pointing out the advantage* that New Plymouth would derive from having an adequate supply of hydroelectricity, a.nd, he added, it was not the people of that day who would pay for the scheme, but the users of the power. Mr. T. N. Blackhall asked the difference in the loss of friction as between the smaller and larger tunnels. Mr. Blair Mason said they lost 12J h.p. for every foot lost of head. ‘lt would undoubtedly mean loss of head. Mr. Lee had said that the total loss in revenue between the two tunnels would he £204 per annum at 45 per cent, load factor. MAYOR'S STATEMENT. The Mayor said that in the course o: his explanation,- Mr. Blair Mason had admitted the very thing that had led the council to take the course it had He had admitted that the No. 2 tunnel was built for 9000 h.p., but in a tim< of drought it would only have a minimum of 6000 h.p. It had, he said, noi been disclosed to them that the enlargement of the tunnel meant accepting the responsibility .for the expenditure of an additional £B5OO, including the forebay, etc., and the question waa. where was the money to come from? He pointed out that the cost of the scheme had increased from £40,000, the original estimate, to £172,000, and this scheme was to provide 3000 h.p., or rather, they were to get an additional 2000 h.p.. as when that £17i2,000 wus expended the present 1000 h.p. would be scrapped. This had already cost £llO,000. Actually, therefore, they would have 3000 h.p. at a cost of about £280,000, or over £BO per h.p. Now Mr. Birks, the Government electrical engin. eer, had said that it did not pay tc generate hydro-electricity at more that £65. He would concede that a good deal of this expenditure would be in<

eluded in the larger scheme, and so would considerably reduce the cost per h.p. He also pointed out that the council had not been able to raise the loan of £72,000 because the law would not permit them to pay more than 6 per cent., but they had been able to carry on by arrangement with the bank. How. therefore, did they expect the council to raise the extra £8500? Time, he said, was a great factor in pressing on with the work. Mr. Blair Mason admitted that ho had foreseen the position two years ago. Why, then, did he not press it then? Now it was too late. Instructions had been given to have certain work altered to fit in with the smaller tunnel. To have a survey taken would delay the scheme three months, and it was important that the tunnel should be driven so as to bring the electric light to New Plymouth as early as possible, because they were now in the position that they could not give anyone an extra light. That, he said, was a blot which should be removed as early as possible, so as not to stop the progress of the town. He also pointed out that during the coming year the council had financial liabilities to face in the raising of a loan for about £140.000 to repay loans falling due. so that they would have to face additional interest charges of about £lO,OOO. However desirable it was to have more water, they could not afford it at present owing to the great difficulties that faced them, but in ten or fifteen years’ time, when they required additional I power, they could bring in more water. Mr. Cocker asked if the bigger scheme could be financed would it pay, and, if so. would it not be in the interests of the province to take it up? The Mayor said that he did not know whether it would pay. because he did not know what ft was going to cost. The latest estimate was £233,000, but he pointed out that the smaller scheme, which was to cost £106.000, cost £172,000. so on the same basis they could form an idea. THE IRONSAND PROPOSAL. The question had also been raised about the sale of 4000 h.p. to a good customer. There had, however, been a lot of misapprehension and mis-state-ments about this. When the council had decided not to enlarge the tunnel, a deputation waited on them and asked that the council re-open negotiations with Mr. Leggatt. as representative of Thos. Summerson and Sons, and Mr. Leggatt had entered into negotiations with the council the previous year, when the council had decided that it could not supply him with the power on the terms or the price quoted. One of the members of the deputation said that it was apparent that Mr. Leggatt wished to re-open negotiations on a different basis, so on that assurance the council had cabled Mr. Leggatt, but had not received any reply. They had since received a letter stating that a continuous supply of 4400 h.p. was required, and they had written to say they could not supply that. Moreover, one of the conditions was that his firm should operate the works and supply them with the power they did not want. The borough, he said, had not broken off negotiations.

Mr. Blair Mason said that he had urged the necessity for surveys so that they should find oiit what resources they had and where to tap those resources. They would then be in a position to let Thos. Summerson and Co. know what power they had to give them, if any. NO DELAY WITH THE TUNNEL. In reply to Mr. J. McLeod. Mr. Blair Mason said that there need be no delay in pushing on with the tunnel while the survey was being made, as during the three months that would take they could still continue to drive the tunnel. During that time not more than 600 feet would be pierced, at a cost of approximately £6OO or £7OO. The Mayor pointed out that arrangements had just been made to drive the tunnel from four heads at once.

Mr. W. Ambury said that it appeared to him that after all the discussion they only guessed at the cost of the survey and had not been told the actual cost of extending the tunnel without the forebay. If the survey could be done for £7OO or £BOO and the tunnel extended on the larger size, could Mr. Mason give any idea of the cost of doing the work in a few years’ time? If by doing the work now they could save’ £lO,OOO. in a few years’ time it should be a payable proposition. . Mr. Blair Mason said that the cost the larger tunnel, increasing the forebay, etc., would be about £5OOO. The Mayor asked whether it was not a fact that some of tfie plant had been ordered for the smaller tunnel.

Mr. Oven (of Messrs. Blair Mason, Lee and Owen), said that it had not been. POWER FROM OUTSIDE. Mr. T. P. Hughson asked whether they had considered the question of using the spent water. He also asked if they had considered the benefits that would accrue to the district before they turned down the offer from the outside firm. Had the council suggested the possibilities of the Stony River to Thos. Summerson and Sons? The Mayor stated that they had considered several schemes before the present one was selected. In the course of further discussion I Mr. C. 11. Burgess pointed out that the borough had a license over the area from the Inglewood borough to the Stony River, and that the possibilities of the Waitara River had been mentioned to the English firm. THE INCREASED ESTIMATES. Mr. T. C. List asked whether the increased estimates the Mayor had given I were for the same scheme as originally estimated upon, or for a scheme that was afterwards considerably enlarged. The Mayor said that he was quoting from the general manager’s hand book, and was not attempting to mislead the meeting.

Mr. List also asked if it was not a fact that the cost of th? work now proceeding was not coming out below the

The Mayor: Yes, but we added some £20,000 to the £60,000 loan to be quite on the safe side. So far the tunnel had been driven in good country and had not struck stone. They could not tell till the tunnel was completed whether it would bo below the estimates.

Mr. List said that with the saving effected they would have quite sufficient for the enlargement of the tunnel. Mr. Burgess eaid the Mayor was fiot re*

presenting the position fairly or properly over these estimates.

ALLEGATIONS OF MISLEADING.

The Mayor admitted that included in the work estimated at £172,000 was No. 2 tunnel, estimated at £32,000, which was not in the work originally estimated to cost £40,000. Mr. Burgess pointed out that a great deal of the increase was due to the increased cost of the plant, and was not all due to the engineering part of the work. Mn Burgess said that a section of the meeting had been misled into thinking that the work as estimated by the engineers had increased from £40,000 to £172,000, whereas much of the extra cost was caused by the increase in the electrical equipment, as well as in other works not included in the original scheme the estimated cost of which was £40,000.

The Mayor stated that he had no intention of misleading the meeting. It was costing £172,000 to instal 2000 horsepower. He had not the figutes or the various details.

Mr. Burgess pointed out that there was no official present who could give the meeting the information it should have. Mr. McLeod said the position had been placed unfairly before the meeting by the Mayor. AH the ratepayers were asking was for the council to have a survey made to ascertain whether any additional water or storage could be obtained, and in the meantime continue to make the larger tunnel, so that it would cope with the additional water if there was any. If it were found that there were none then it was no use constructing the larger tunnel, and they could reduce it to the smaller size. This would only cost £6OO or £7OO. In any case, was it not worth while expending £B5OO in enlarging the tunnel, etc., to cope with this additional water, and so save the expense later on of driving a tunnel at a cost of £30,000, because it would be impossible to enlarge the present tunnel once the dam was completed? The council, no doubt, might have felt justified in refusing to shoulder the extra responsibility, and he did not blame them, but the fact that they had the weight of the ratepayers behind them would take the responsibility j from them. To anyone who looked at the scheme it appeared one of the simplest ever evolved. A RESOLUTION. Mr. C. Carter, as chairman of the Ratepayers’ Association, then moved:

“That in order to ascertain the latent power of the Waiwakaiho and adjoining streams, and to ensure that, the fullest information as to the possibilities of the hydro-electric extension scheme is available to the council and the communty, the Borough Council be asked to proceed with a survey in order to definitely ascertain what additional water is available for power purposes.” Mr. W. J. Chaney seconded.

Mr. J. Brown asked what was the use of having a survey without an estimate of the cost.

The chairman said that that was a matter for the council after the survey had been made.

In reply to further discussion, Mr. Blair Mason said that a suitable survey to ascertain what was feasible in the matter should cost about £7OO.

OUTSIDE DISTRICTS CONCERNED. Mr. J. S. Connett said that while a rate- ' payer of the borough he had the interests of the county ratepayers to consider. Taranaki County ratepayers were looking to New Plymouth to supply them with power, and were anxious to know if sufficient power would be available. If not, then it would be the duty of the county to look elsewhere. The scheme was more than a New Plymouth one. It was vital in the interests of the district.

Mr. T. C. List agreed that the matter was one of provincial importance. In Central and South Taranaki they were persistently agitating for one power board for the province. A lot had been said about the tremendous liability incurred by New Plymouth over the hydro-electric scheme, but he asked if the electric light scheme had ever cost the New Plymouth Borough one penny piece. Had it not, on the other hand, meant thousands of pounds profit? If the Borough felt the burden was too heavy they could easily pass it on to the other local bodies in Taranaki, who would gladly assume the responsibility. They should show the rest of Taranaki that they were alive to their responsibilities in the matter, and were just as eager to carry on as if there were one power board. Otherwise they would lose control of the works, as they would deserve. He stressed the urgency for pushing on with the larger tunnel, pointing out that there was no necessity for the work to be held up pending the result of the survey. As regards finances, the council had met difficulties in this direction successfully on previous occasions, and would do so in the future. It had been said that the deputations to the council had been actuated by unworthy motives, but this was not so. He had headed the deputations because he felt a grave mistake was being made, and the interests of the town and district jeopardised. This also was the feeling of those associated with him. It was because of this that they wished the council to reconsider the matter and do the right thing. SUPPORT FOR THE MOTION. Mr. Burgess urged ratepayers to consider the matter very carefully. The ratepayers had exercised their right m criticising the actions of the council if they differed from them, and he added that the action was not to be taken as a want of confidence in the council.

Mr. 8. G. Smith, M.P., supported the motion. New Plymouth had an obligation on it to push on with its scheme and conserve every drop of water that it could. It had the support of the great majority of the local bodies near at. hand in its scheme, and the Inglewood borough had contracted to obtain its power from New Plymouth. He pointed out that a very cursory examination had been made of 1 aranaki’s power resources by Mr. Parry in reporting on electricity schemes of the Dominion. He a<need that it would be unwise to delay the survey. If they delayed it till the supply was wanted, say ten or fifteen years, it would not be possible to enlarge the tunnel. It was not proposed to cope with the extra supply available in the immediate future, but to be in a position to cope with the total water available when the scheme was finally developed. After -a little further discussion the resolution was carried.

Mr. Jas. McLeod then moved that it be a recommendation to the council to carry on with the tunnel as at present (on the larger size) until such time as the survey had been taken.

This was seconded by Air. List and carried.