TEACHERS' SAURIES COMMISSION.

Taranaki Daily News, Volume XXIII, Issue 117, 7 June 1901, Page 2

TEACHERS' SAURIES COMMISSION.

The Teachcr.V Silnrifs Ommiss'on sit' fit the Courthouse on Tbursd iy nc 10 a.m. punctually. Present—Messrs A. W. Hogg, 41. H.R. (Chairman), T. Mac- 1 kenzie, M.H.K., David«on, R. S, I Stewart, S. Luke, M, Gilftdd r,' M.H.R., H, Hill, Smith, F. G. Lethbridge, M.H R,, and T, S. Weston. Mr. Hogben (Insp'ctor-Ger.eial) was a'so together with the Secretary, Mr. T. Morton. D. MoAllura (Chairman (f the Edu- , cation Board) tendered the Commissi m a hr.nrty welcome. He then stated that, while f ivou ir.g a colonial ' scalo he thought, that what would suit ; Taratiaki better than that so tie would [lea graduated scale. Undtr the fc .le of lis 3d p-'i' capi'ata the Bo.rd ■ would lose nearly of .£7OO a y. ar. Tara- ' n-ki Teachers were ui dirp:iid, and .th's wi,s evidenced by the dearth o( applications for vacancies'. He whe not ul- , together in favour of equal rata of piy i f it' males and female. o , as what with illness and tho fact that femilts could ; live cheaper than miles, an equal scile ■t. ould ba in favour of femal s. With i view of encouragi"g m.le teachers , tho lio.'u'd weid cf increasing 1 tho inducem^n's to boy pup : l te .cfcers, To Mr. Mclvenz'e: There were no | half-time schools in thi? district; sick , allowance was half pay. Had not seen j the alternative scale; was of opinion 'hat tin eduction system should be ' built, up to tli3 b.'st, even if t l .e £& ] cip'tation grant was exceeded. Woa'd i be averse reducing the hotter paid ) teachers' . salaries to increase the ■ smaller. There was no system of promotion in force under the Boird ; the ! committees selected candidates fr m a ! list furnished by the Board. Present s allowance to the Board was rot s ffi i cient, the buildirig fu id being so short 1 that many teachers' resid-ncts, co I'd not be providd, and the Boarl wfre i powerless to improve the condition o l ' teachers ; was averse to canj vassing committees. Could not say if . the head teacher ct the C nt™l Schoo' - would be satisfied with an iucreast of I £6O. j To Mr. Davidson : A slat m*nt had lwii p cpar- d thowing i he loss of £7OO. , At lis 31 the grant, would am unt to . £ 1883 11 s 3.1, to which was to be added! - £250. The Board's expenditure c amounted 1 st yrar to £2962 15», the '' deficiency being about £7OO. He was , in favour i f Training Colleges for pupil 3 teacher, the establishment; of which • would, of course, save the Bond the j xpeiise of tuifcioo. Ileus j allowances . a ere niad-j when no residences were ] prov : do', and if arr ngeonenU were - iuade fo this by !he Department there j would be a considerable saving, but a* present the Board were hard pressed for fun'is, There was Very grett difficulty in getting the rig'at class of bays to conn forward as pupil teachers ; the 1 pay off ered not being sufficient. There were a few applications for tjacherships i- ou'sde the district, Had cot seen the i al eniat.ive scale. 1 To Mr Stewart: Was not at a'l in £ favour of the existence of tho greit ~ discrepencies in the piyment of tenchis eis throughout the colony. Thought | ohe graduated captation grant might be a s'ep towards romoving these discrepancies. He consider, d t he Department complimented the Biard by adopting the same scheme which the , Board had in force for some time, i N'on-piying schools would increase in » the ai-trc. The Board considered I the colonial scalo would he bet'or for J teachers, but the gtaduated scalo r would bs more f.vurabe for the 3 Board's incidental expenses, r Tj Mr. Giifinider: The salaries of j teachers in the district w re as a whole ton bw. Th?ie was not th< same difli ulty in s curing fema 0 teachers a i male, The form.r preponderated, r Tho scho Is in outlying districts would ■ alw-iys be a s>iious drain on the re- | sou ces of the Board vvho-o bu'lding f grant w; s far from suflici n l '. (PI n s put ia shoeing scho 1< wi h robidence--1 and wi hout.) The appointment of ' as-'istints in lieu of pupil teachers wihj a question cf cxp'nse. The ques ion ;. of convey-sire of children from ba k dist iefs ti a cen'ral schaol was a ddlicult. on", the mode of cjnv yance being I confined to riding ou horsebak. The ° central s hojl was none t.co hrge for the present attendar.ee, and the (Jcurten iy-stre.t s heel was tixed to i f s f utmost. At Stratford, also, although 3 a tew inf.nt school had ree-intly 3 bean bnilr, more acc :mnicda'ion wa« , requ ; r d. Did not think the formation |of a scalo by tho D.-partroent would affect tho powers of the Bojrd, To Mr Hill: Thought labour in g Taranaki was slightly dener than in , other parts of the colony. Corsidered - teachers thr .bgheut the colony should in ptil the same for situihr chss of '' work. Teachers in T rannki, donsider- | ing the Inrds'.ips they had to put up > with owing largely to its being a bush i. country, slv uld, if anything, leeiv. 1 mr.ro pay thun in well setthd districts, j Efficiency was the great point that wax . to be considered in a teacher, and it weighed with the Board in its selec'ions. At every B' ard meeting ; the question of of funds occupied cocs'de able time a'.d atten- , tion. Tho cooimi'.foei wei'd always i complaining of want of funds, and but for t':e vo'untary help of members of \ committee?, the schcob would go to r ;ck and He could not say « h it that aid represented in ca ? h, but illustrated shelter sheds as an example. The building fur.d was not used f.r p.int ng, repiirs, or for any.other purposes but building. As to merging this district with Wangmui, he thought such an arrangement wou'd be ! oo large an order. Ilerecognis d that by the Department taking over some of tho work of the Boards there miehfc be lees woik for them to d;-, and was cp ite mre that some Boards would be qu'.te wilbng to hand over iheirt'un;t : OM to the Department. To Mr Le h bridge : The Boa> d had oi. ly two aided sbhoo's. To Mr Weston: Had expressed an opinion in favour of inspectors being under control of the Gjvernnv-n% and was qui'e sure such an avrangetm nt would be favoured by parents. Tne Board had only one Insp'c'or. If hot e wt>re throe or f mr Inspectors that tnigh". alter his view*. The 11 specter w s not consulted re appointments. Applica'ions were c >n ide: ed by a selection committor and the namoH of those , chosen were sent to the committers, hi cises of difficuby the Ii spector shoui I be consulted. Thought tho yj'em of pupil teach rs wis an sdvu;«nd cjnside.od such t acliers ( would be abb to take over a junier ] cl i-is under snpcrvis'on o? tho h ad , toichei'. As to whuther pupil t r anlv rs , .odd »-e sutficien'ly train*) tind.r the , ir*ont system to be competent and efficient te .chcrs he cou'.d only s iy that the results attained at preient w?re i very satisfactory. At the same time he thought a training co'.lege would be s beneficial. The present minimum j, saliry was £SO, but he thought £751, jshould ba the lowest sum paid. Thore! f ware not complaints at present as x

te chers knew it was no use making ; any. Considered collatereal circumstanc s such as rent and cost of living should be taken into account in assessing teachers salaries, but that as a bas's sdiries throughout the colony :s l onll he equal, special circums'anc s being m;t by special giants. He considered that the payments now being made to committeei should he doubled. Irregular attendance at the rouDtry scho' h in tho win er was a necessity owing to the bid roads and long distance'. The dairying industry had al boning on the questiou of irregular, 1 sttendance. Children were often! weati'd on arriving at school and not in' ' a fit state to receive education owing to gettirg in cows and helping in milking. ! The first pjint, however, w,.a that 1 peoplo mast live ; education cam»i after. Travelling expentea of the membeis of ' the Board were actual expeoses. Meet- ' ings were twice a month, the whole of ■ each day being occupied. Ifthamorey ' granted for the building fund was de 1 voted to repairs, painting, etc., it ' would suffice, but would leave ro'hing 1 for n w buildings. To allow f-r new 1 buildings the grant shou'd ba doubled 1 Ut.le-'s the G >ve>nment giant was ' augm>ntel the building) must deteriorat\ The t-ingfe-handid schools were ' no brger than required for present : eircuinstances. Thought tha firsi 1 assistant t< ache s' silaries should be 1 increased, ospeci.il'y in view of the ' • me-go'icy of t l eir laving to t'mpor- : a i y fill the pos tion of head teacher. ' S-n II schools, up to 20 or 25, would be 1 better 'erved by femile than male ! teacl erg. The Bo rd, generally, ccnsidered 40 as the li'uit if at tcher's ! class. In couutry schools a teacher 1 had to manage all st<nd irds when the ; at endance did not exceed 40, and after that num l er a pupil teacher was pro--1 vi.l id. The Board's tcale was just, bs ' b;'ween mile and f male teach, rs. He \ was averse to the ht ad teacher being mu'ct wi'h the cost i f a sewing mis- ' tress' sa' ry. Th) Boird did not adopt [ that policy. To Mr. Ilogben : I? r si lencos were provided the que-tion of exceptional circutni tan3e3 wou'd pir')y be inopera- ' tive. He citild not say whether it ■ would be poss'b'e to devise a scale to 5 mn;t the additional cost ot' mcessaries ' of life in theback districts. Underthe 3 Dapartment's ne* r 'gul itions re Dis--3 trict High Schools the Boards funds ' would not be at any expense for the ' St'atford High School. 1 To the Chairman : He was in f ivour 1 of Inspectors being under control of ' th<> D' part.m'n', Had no"; conside.ed 3 the aspect of the question in view of J the independence of the Insp cfcor, who 3 "might set the Board at defiance. Th a Cba'rtoan : There are advant- ' ages, but also disadvantages. Mr. McAllum : Under the circums stnnces you men'ion, I th'nk, perhaps 3 it would be better to con inue the B under the control of the 3 Bo rd. Nearly the who'e of the B Board's schools were "manned" by teicher3 with salaries of under £l5O. ' There were a few teachers who had 1 left the district with a vie n to be .taring their position. ' G. W. Potts, Bell Block Scbo >l, one of tho representatives of the Educational Institute, faid he app; oved of the original colonial scale. The only f eomp aint he had heird wai t.s 'o the B payments to the second assistants at • New Plymouth and Stratford. J The Chiirman explained to the ' witness that the Commission was not l " committed to the scale. 3 To Mr. T. Mackenzie: Un'e?s pres sent salaries Wrre maintained the class of teachers would be lower than at ' present, The increased scale should B suflic i to al'ow the teachers to con--3 tribnt.o to superinnuation funds. Promotions were now qui'e a mitt r of ■ chance—in some cites it was almost ' hope'e-s. Preferred Inspec ors being iind' r control of tha Government as ' hj? con i'iored the chacces of leachei'd' 1 pr tmntion wou'd tboioby be e> hanced. " Could'not siy ho>v tho matter would bi regit did by the* 0 irumi'-tees who ' sim u.imis mide very bad selections, ' To Mr. Davidson: Had 30 yeare ; r, xp rience. Thought it was impossible for a teacher to do justice to a school ' of 40. Hal heard that elsewhere a 3 sole ' e icher had to take a school of 50. r Conßicdred a school of 35 should have " an assistant to tike the infant classes. 3 Rates of sliries in Tjrauaki were 1 lower thin in some other places. 1 Would rat hor receive a lower rate of * pay and an a s sistant than get " higher pay for teaching over 40 [ children. Would certainly not suggest the a ; sistance of a pupil teacher as the 1 woik was too important. To have two 1 cet tifica'ed teaches in a school of 35 ' se med la'liT a heivy o dur, but he [ thought it would be beneficial. Frcm f 35 to 55 he s'iegest?d a ihiid year ' pupil t ac v O '. He thought a monitor ' -»ho lnd gone through the school, and 1 piss d the six h standard would prove quiti as efllcient an assis'ant as a ■ pupil teicher, and he approved the 1 suggestion to employ a monitor at, ' -i»y, £l2 a year whore the' numbers we e between 30 and 40, thus I ineet'tg all requirements. ' To Mr Stewart: He represented the ' fcracherp. They were all in f .vour of a ; colo.iinl scale. The difi'jtecci in cost of livirg was such that it would be impossible to provide for it in any s ale. 1 An asd-tant mistress should be appoint d when the number tf pupils reached 35. To Mr Giifedder: Had seen it stated i hat tho Insp?c'o'B themselves had carried a r so'ution in favour of centralisation. The hardest school to deal with was one bot*e n thiity and for.y. Ha did not think a teicher at a s;hool of under 40 should receive less thru £l5O. He certainly thought that the res ilts expect d from a aohool of one tescher with 40 children tshould no 1 , bn as high as those fro.n a fully staffed town schojl. There was a certain amount of fainuss in taking the £lO for a sewing mistress off a male teach r's salary. He re id tho proposal as one intended to favour the appointment of female teachers to s-mill fchools. There were not the same facilities here as in North Canterbury and Otago for teaclnra obtaining higher certificates. He favoured p.ytnent of capitation by uni's instead "f g' oups. To Mr Hill: Incases where a female teacher had a school of 35. the pjssible uflicienoy of work would not be lowered by the <ippoiutmentof an assisr. n.t junior mistress. Did not tliink that, o ntificatos A and B should be sseut'al, but they were detiraole. Grating on a figure was an ackuow- . ledgmenb of He did not think to ichors shoul l bi punished for no': having a dSjfee or a bigh-cla'S ! | certificate The withdraw d by the Bard of the bonus or certificate caused great dissatisfaction. Skill was what tvas rcqniivd. j To Mr. Weeton: The niinimum j salary should be £IOO, ss lest than that i was insufficient tj live upon. There 1 was no choice as to orri| loying mate or ' female tsachera in smill schools. Did J eos think th) general ruu of pupil ,

teiohers were competent to impart instruction in the schools. In small schools the instruction given to pupil teachers was often imperfect, but there were cues in the .opposite direction. The establishment of a training school would be a decided advantage, but if at Wanganui or Wellington the distance weald be a bar. The small-r schools were at a disadvantage with regard to scholarships. Promotion should ba made on the Inspector's remarks. A sequence of reports should betaken. He did not think that the system of having an intir change of Inspectors wou'd prevent promotion of a teicher, but rather would be a guide for it. To Mr. Hogben : The minimum of £IOO salary was f< r a sole teacher. If manual inspection were introduced there should be a smaller number of pupils to each teacher than at present. W. E. Spencer, Inspector cf Schools in Taranaki, t>aid that whatever scheme was carried as a result of the Commis- , sion's enquiries, would, he was satisfied, be a good one. In Taranaki there was a difllcul'y in getting teachers, and this was partly due to the fact that the i people were fairly well off, and teachers' salaries were so small that the i girls went into some other lino of life. ; With the srna'l salaries, too, changes ; in the staffs were fr.quent, and thus i the grca f est efficiency was not obi tained. The weaker ttachers weie drafttd to the smaller districts. He , believed, however, that ihe wetk i teachers gave a quid poo quo fur the i amount of sakry received at small school?. The hardest s.hool to i work was the ore of 40 scholars, with a ' first year pupil te .che.\ The staffiog i of schools in Tarinaki was not so ' meagre as would perhaps appear at first sight. There was practically an a'sNtanfc at every school with an averi age attendance of 56 pupils. At ; present there were 66 teachers and 36 pupil teachers in the district, and ; under the proposed new system of ste fling there would b9 an a sistant i teacher at each school of 40 pupils. I The number of pupil teachers would . be reduc d by nine, Th°re would, he : fearod, ba s me difficu'ty at first in i getting teachers to fill the appointi men's under the proposed scheme. He i believel in the institution of Kindergartsn and minual instruction classes, i and thought nn alternative tyllabua i should be introduced so that a teacher could take up whatever lines • of instructions he was be*t ad ptei ' far. The kindergarten syst m should ! be adopted for children under five y< art* 'of sge. Referring to sal iries, Mr i Spencer said that of the 66 teach, ri 63 received increases, which were allocated . according to the nature of the work dor.e. Thirteen teachers received . undrr £IOO a year, Tho ability of , the teachers was recognised in the i scheme of proposed payments of salaries. ) In any scheme brought forward, how- ) ever, he considered a system of superr animation should be recognised. Teachers were put to many expanses [ in prepiriDg for their professions. . Then in some cases epedemics occurred frequently, and the teachers' ealarit s , fell through small and irregu'ar attend- . ances, though their work was really p doubled; in that they had to teach i subjects twice over. Teachers Bbould i ba provided for in such cases by hnv- ■ ing their salaries based on the previous quarter's attendance. He was j not quite satisfied wi h the payment of ; assistants under the proposed scheme. Mr. Hogben explained that a part of . the prepo.-al was to reiuce the num- , bers so tint the salaries could be ; raised. I [ Mr. Spencer thanked Mr. Hogbeaj . for the information, which he s >id was , very s .t'sfact iry. The 1 .rg«it dec ens > j in ass'stinta' n»laries at the bigger ; schools was £SO in one ca o and £lO r in another. He placed the order of | teacher', according to their work, as ' follows :—Heidmasttra of the large schojls, first; first and second male [ asaistan's at the same schools (who , were the backbone of the whole ot the work done), second ; tLen first female ass : stants, or in'aet mistresse o , wh( so , work was very important in laying the [ ground work of the children's edu aL tion, third. He thought tho proposal to give pupil teachers an al OAauc« |if , they were sent to schools awiy from home an excellent one, though he could i not agree 'o a reduction if tbe teacher remain* d at his home school. ■ Mr Hogben siid that was only ini tended in the casj of an uncertificated l teacher. : Mr Spencer agreed that in that rasi , the propa-al was an excellent one. He would like to see clasps ids itutei in conuction with technical school* for lectures on school management', as the more the pupil teachers were improved the beter. The cost of administration was not so much dependent on i.uoibers as on distribution. In Tarauaki i the Bchcols were very much sea to od, and the capi'ati m allowed to the Board would not allow of imprjvdtaen's in many directions in which they were dt sir able. R garding payment of teacheis, Mr. Speicersaid that in echo Is of atterdancos up to 25, male arid f-.male teachers' work wbs about equal. Over that numb r ra>les did better work, and in larger schools females were not so good, as tho work was too trying for their constitutions, and the cost of production of < ffi ieu' female teachers was gretier. Int e last two yea s 22 teacheis left the lioard's service, 17 of whom were females. Six cf thes* were marriad, nine left the work altogether from othucausae, and two were teiching eUa- : where. Twelve female and four inula pupils teachers finishe 1 their course in i the same period, and eight f mulei ltfr, but no mules. Out of 18 absence < i through |*irkaesg, 15 we e females. Fur y school t were b jicg worked at a los*, and ten at a of £lO or over. There was only one sid-j school, the South Road school. The Uourt'niy-street school was worktd iu conjunction with the Oentral schojl. He thought the ou'ome cf the proposed colonial system of payment of teachers would be moct beneficial to this district, as it would do an ay with a gool deal of dissatisfaction, and would raise the statu* of ttaei e.s. Mr. Spencer was then questioned at 'ongth by members of the Commission, and at the concision of his < Xitnination an adjouramrnt was made till 10 o'clock this moriing.