SAN FRANCISCO MAIL SERVICE. IMPORTANT DEBATE. GOVERNMENT PROPOSALS CARRIED. (BY TELEGRAPHU.—SPECIAL REPORTER.) Wellington, September 13.

Te Aroha News, Volume VII, Issue 403, 18 September 1889, Page 5

SAN FRANCISCO MAIL SERVICE. IMPORTANT DEBATE. GOVERNMENT PROPOSALS CARRIED. (BY TELEGRAPHU. — SPECIAL RE PORTER.) Wellington, September 13.

Th h long-expected debate on the mail pro posals of Government) came up last night, there being a good House. The House wont into committee of the whole to considor them. The Premier, in introducing the resolution, said lhafc they were not intended to reverse the decision of last year. He understood that decision to mean that the colony should have the cheapest mail service. Last year in round numbers their mail contracts cost them ,£55,000, and the loss to the colony was £16,000. The Government had called ior tenders for a fortnightly service, but no suitable tender had been obtained, that from the direct lines being intoimal. The AgentGeneral had had negotiations with Canada on the subject of a service via Vancouver, but it was tound that, though anxious for such a Pacific service, at present they were not able to undertake it. There was a proposal for such a service, the steamers to call at Queensland instead of coming to New Zealand, but this the Government could not accept, as they read the instructions of the House to mean that the colony was to have the steamers calling here. They then had had advances from the Americans, and the reason why he had delayed bringing down the resolution was that he had hoped to have definite proposals from the United States to lessen the duties on certain New Zealand impoits, but evidently the negotiations were not as yet far enough advanced. He then related how New South Wales had entered into a contract, for the 'Frisco line, and they wanted New Zealand to join. The position of the Government at the present was that they had no definite plans to offer the country, and now what they should do "was to make temporary arrangements. The Government did not intend to commit the House to any scheme of mail contract. What they wanted was to have a good and cheap line with a -view of gaining time to see what was going to be the development of the various lines, and to obtain for the colony a fast and cheap mail service. There wos the 'Frisco line, and the Direct sen ice on the Federal lines, which were open to us for twelve months, and that evening they had to consider which was the best for their purposes. There was another road open, for they might abolish all subsidies and only pay so much per pound. They might also compel vessels calling here to carry our mails for next to nothing, but, as hon. members would see, it was hardly possible to do this. The cost of these lines Mould be about £3,700 and £2,700 respectively. They were tempting to those who wanted a cheap postage. He had often seriously thought of it, but he was sure that there would be soon such an outcry from the mercantile community owing to irregularities, etc., that they would have to obtain a regular line. He thought that the country could well afford to pay a small bonus to the existing lines, as they had done the colony an immense amount of good. Then if they wanted regularity they must have regular services, or we would soon get into difficulties with our mercantile lelations. Then they had to consider whether they would join the Federal Service, which would cost them about £13,000 or £14,000 a year : but then they would want a service between New Zealand and Australia, which would cost at least another £13,000, and he was sure the seivice altogether would cost £23,000 a year. Besides, it would mean encouraging importation through Austialia. He did not think the Federal service would be adopted. Then there was the Direct service, with the 'Frisco service. It cost yearly £28,750. He did not think the direct companies would accept a contract for a fortnightly or monthly service without a bonus ; certainly not for £1,000 a month to carry the mail matter. Dealing with Mr Ward's proposals, he felt sure that we could nob obtain the services, such as he wanted, for £20,000 ; such proposal? were only playing with the question. Any other proposals than those of the Government would cost at least £7,000 more a year. If the House said that they were not to have any 'Frisco service, did they know what that meant ? It would mean that then American correspondence would have to come by way of England, meaning a three weeks' delay. An hon. member : The 'Frisco mail would bring them. The Premier : I do not think they would. "We would have to have all our correspondence from America go by way of England, or else pay for them coming by any other way. The expense of sending the correspondence for America by way of Sydney by the 'Frisco service would cost at least £6,000 a year, and he was sure the community would not agree to the arrangements the Government would have to make. He then showed that if they had to make the arrangements they would have to send a special steamer to Sydney to meet the Frisco steamers both inward and outward. Then could they refuse to the Auckland and other people the right to send their English letters by that way, which meant greater expense? In shoit, he had worked it out that any way the colony would have to pay the line some £10,000 or £11,000 a year, this taking the least amount they would be likely to send ; then they had to consider the advisableness of opening up communication with a continent like America and to obtain the ad -vantage of the passengers passing through. Looking at the fact that New South Wales had agreed to renew the 'Frisco service for a twelvemonth, there was no further obstacle to availing ourselves of the line. Dealing with the objection raised that the line cultivated a dangerous opposition in the grain trade, he felt it wa3 worthless, as the steamers were going to run to Sydney as it was. Besides, ho was of opinion that any large grain trade between California and New South Wales would not go by steamer, but by sailing vessel. He assured the House that the farmers in the South could not possibly be affected by the proposals of the Government. Dealing with Sydney itself, he was aware that that city had had all the best of the line in the past, and she now saw the advantage of it and wa3 prepared to pay her fair share. Sydney was our most important market, and it would be very shabby if at a very small cost we refused to join her now. The proposals of the Government were reasonable, and no other route was practicable w ith the same conveniences. If they did compel the Northern people to send their Amencan letters right round, the gain would be so small as not to balance the inconvenience to the public. If the Committee were prepared to abolish bonuses that was a different matter, and it would in his estimation be a very unwi&e one. He miffht mention that if wesent all our correspondence by America the colony would make a very large profit, but that would be a very unwise course, and the Government wanted to da

was to make temporary arrangement^ for their mails until they could see what the , developments in regard to the Canadian service would be. He pointed out that in the near future they had to expect a cable line across the Pacific, and to sever our direct communication with America ab the present time would be a most retrograde stop. In conclusion, the Premier said New Zealand's contribution would bo to New South Wales' profit alone. Mr Ward, who has always been the fierce opponent of the 'Frisco service, took up the parable and strove to combat the Premier's arguments for over an hour and a-half, first moving his amendment for the abolition of the 'Frisco service, and tor an arrangement for fortnightly direct services at a cost of £20,000, or for a weekly service via Melbourne to cost the same amount. He complained that the Government had not made proper efforts to obtain the fortnightly direct service for which the House declared last session. Last year's resolution had a distinct application to the cessation of the 'Fiisco subsidy in November next. Arguing against the existing service, he pointed out that there was no hope for any removal of the American duties which would be needed before trade with tho States could be encouraged. After criticising the Premier's figures at great length, he pointed out that New Zealand was now asked to pay for the service out of all reasonable pioportion to what the other colonies had to pay when Now Zealand was the chief contributor. The argument against the Federal service, that it would necessitate a ! special intercolonial line of steamers, did not hold good, seeing that the Union Company's vessels were plying regularly to and from .Melbourne. Mr Ward delivered himself of a series of elaborate calculations as to the services rondcred to the colony by each line of mail steamers, and the probable results under the various proposals. One of the clauses of the agreement ou which the original 'Frisco contract was based 19 year.* ago was that an endeavour would bo made to get New Zealand flax and wool admitted to the States duty free ; yet though 11500,000 had been spent ou "subsidies, this objectwns as iarfrom realisation as c\er. On the contrary, the steamers had for years brought grain and fish to the colony, thus competing with our own industries in our own market and in Sydney, and they had been assisted by the subsidies in competing ■with tne colonial line of vessels between Auckland and Sydney. He denied that he had any partiality for the Direct service in preference to the 'Frisco steamers, but merely wished to see the colony subsidise the lino doing ie the most service. In conclusion the hon. gentleman aigued that the 'Fiisco service was impotent as a colonising route, and that an excellent service by the P. and. O. route could be obtained tor £20,000 per annum. As pointed out by Sir John Hall, tho next speaker, Mr Waid't speech was directed against the colony con trading for the 'Frisco service, and would have been apropoo in last session's debate. Sit John Hall said that last year he voted against the continuance of the 'Fricco service, but now he intended to vote for the Pofe&mas-ter-Genenil't. proposals. The present resolutions, he pointed out, were not for a continuance of the 'Frisco sen ice, a bargain having already been made with New South Wales which provided for that. The question for the Committee to decide was whether, in the event of the steameis calling at Auckland, should we a\ail ourselves of postage by that route? Mr Saunders advocated a considerable reduction in our foreign postage lates. He failed to .--cc anything in tho aigument against the 'Fiisco rervicoon account of the export of grain to Sydney. He, however, condemned subsidising a steamer that could do us no sood, and which biought articles into this colony that we could produce here. He pi ef erred that we should support our own lines. Mr Buchanan condemned the Premier's proposals. Mr Withy did nob think we should deal very much with the commercial aspect of the various lines, but he set himself to show by statistics how superior the 'Frisco line was for mail-carrying purposes. He advocated the proposals brought down by the Premier, showing how profitable they would be to the colony. The 'Frisco service, he showed, would become even cheaper. It would be quicker than before, and would even become highly profitable. He held that the refusal to pass the Government proposals would mean a loss of £14,000 a-vear to the colony. Mr Fisher declaied that whether we liked it or not, the 'Frisco service would be kept up, and deprecated any subsidy for it coming from Kew Zealand. He wanted the encouragement to be given to the Direct lines, the purely national lines of New Zealand. The Premier, in reply, said there was no possible way of escaping payment of the conveyance of our American mails. There was no cheaper way of obtaining it than by the proposals of the Government. To pass Mr Ward's proposals would be to order the Government to do what ib was impossible for them to do. Ab bwenby minutes past twelve a division was taken as to striking out all the words after the first line in the first resolution of the Premier, with a view of inserting Mr Saunders amendment providing for the abolition of subsidies and payment by weight. The result was a victory for the Govern, ment by five votes, the division beingayes, 51 ; noes, 26. - Mr Ward then moved his first resolution, fixing the cost of the ocean mails ab nob more than £20,000. This was lost by 33 to 24. The first resolution, "That in view of the expiration of the ocean mail sei vice contract in November and December next, it is desirable to make further provision for the conveyance of mails tortnightly between the colony and Great Britain at a total cost not exceeding £28,750," was carried by 34 to i? 2. The question of the 'Frisco service was involved in Mr Ward's next amendment, which stated that it is nob desirable to subsidise the service. The amendment was negatived by 53 to 21, when the resolution and all others were agreed to on the voices. "The resolutions were then reported to the House. Op thequesbion of adopbingthere&olutions, Mr John McLvenzio raised bhe quesbion of Mr James Mills's (Manager Union Company) right to vote as being an interested party. The Speaker said if he was a contractor he could not vote, or if he was a shareholder in a company interested he could not. Mr Barron always considered shareholders in joint stock companies were allowed to vote. Mr Hobbs said there were many shareholdeis in the New Zealand Shipping Company who were members. The question then dropped. Mr Taylor protested against members of the Legislative Council directly interested in the continuation of the 'Frisco service lobbying. The resolutions as a whole were carried by 33 to 19. By way of personal explanation Mr Ward said he had never been in any way directly

or indirectly connected with any shipping company trading to Europe. Tfie House then ro=e nt 1.30 a.nii The following is the division list on Sir H. Atkinson's second resolution :—: — Ayes, 33. — Atkinson, Ballance, Bruce, Cadman, Dodson, Fergus, Fish, Fraser, Fulton, H oldie, Graham, Hall, Hobbs, Jackpon, Kelly, Lawry, Macarthuv, M. J. S. Mackenzie (Mount Ida), McGregor, Mills, Mitche'son, Moat, Monk, Mosf, O'Conor, O'Rorko, G. F. Richaidson (Mataura), Taipna, Taiwhanga, Tanner, R. Thompson (Marsden), T. Thompson (Auckland North), Withy. Noks, 21. — Anderson, Barron, Buchanan, Duncan, Feldwick, FiUherbert, Harkness, Humphreys, Hutchison, Izard, Jones, T. Mackonzio (CluUia). J. McKenzio (Waihemo), Vorcoval, Rhodes, Seddon, W. J. Steward (Wainiate), Taylor, Verrall, Walker, Ward.

PA IKb. For. — Hodgkinson, Carroll, Orraond, O'Cotioi", Valentino, Seymour, Samuel, Smith, \V. D. Stowart, Pyke, Ross, Allen, (-Jrey, Why to, Russell. AftAiNbT. — Turnbull, Loughvey, Grimmond, W. P. Reeves, Biake, Lanco, J. C Brown, Larnach, Joyce, Newman, Kerr, Fitchett, Parata, R. Reeves, Wilson.