SATURDAY, 20th FEBRUARY. MORNING SITTING.

Southland Times, Volume III, Issue 46, 22 February 1864, Page 3

SATURDAY, 20th FEBRUARY. MORNING SITTING.

The Deputy- Speaker took the Chair to-day at twelve, noon. Present — Messrs. Scott, Calder, Stuart, Wilson, Tarlton, M'-Kay, CoAvan, Chahncrs, Eogcrs, Jackson, and Beaven. . The minutes of last bitting Avere'read. and confirjoied. , „ .-. . * «.*.•" ' • , *" Hr. STUART laid on the table"the Report ■t- '■■.' ' ' ■ " A i"

of the select committee on the Representation Bill. V Mr. TARLTON moved, and Mr. Stuart seconde'd^'That- the Report and amended Bill be printed;" Agreed to. i i Mr. STUART moved, and. Mr. Tarlton seconded— " That consideratioii of the Billys reported bo made an order of the day for Monday morning's -Bitting." ..Agreed to. . ii.Axr- . -. HIS HOSOtt'S ;BSPI,Vy .- yi ■ "; Mr*/ CHALMERS 'imbTcd — "That His Honor's reply be taken into consideration." Miv COWAN seconded, the motion, whioh was agreed to } but for a considerable ''time, thore Avas silence,, no one apparontiy heing inclined to re-open- the debate.- At last .- Mr.iTARLTON eaid it would have been a source of satisfebtioh to, him,if the gentleman avlio moved tlie adjournment on the previous * evening, had commenced I tho discussion. So far as his own opinion went, it Avas that they had debated* the subject a S much as it could be debated. , His Honor might be right, or the Council might ..be right; His Honor might be wrong, or the Council might be wrong"; ■ hut he Avas not- sure if they debated for three months "it would be more likely to produce conviction in the mindrof His Honor, or that he by any number of replies wotdd produce any alteration in the opinions they held. He" did not feel disposed" to take up the Reply as a Avhole, and would just make one remark — that it was distinctly recognised . that the Superintendent of a Province Avas in the exercise of power' derived from at least three different sources — the Imperial G-overn-ment, the G-eneral Assembly, and the Provincial Council. He proceeded to point out the extent of the power received from caeh of these sources, and concluded a -lengthy speech by affirming that, in liis opinion, the Superintendent Avas bound in honor to consult his Executive. Mr. CHALMERS quite agreed with the remarks of the hon. member. Mr. CALDER said it liad been stated the previous evening that His Honor having directed a distinct cliarge to be made out against him, or rather, that the charge indirectly conveyed should be made a specifiic one, and they were bound to do so. Although acknowledging that one particular circumstance amis' tlie cause of bringing the whole question of responsible government up before his mind, still on looking at the Avhole matter, he AA-as forced back to the original conclusion at Avhich he arrived Avith the nine gentlemen avlio signed tlie note, A-iz., that as a Council they ; should adhere to the principle laid down Avithout reference to any particular case. If they stated a ease to His Honor it. might be replied to, and so they might to go on stating cases, and receiA-ing replies to an indefinite period. Ifc AA-ould bo much better if the Council "Avould come to a conclusion on tlie subject, and state in a calm dignified manner how the government should be conducted. This particular case AA-as clear, but by adhering to it he thought they Avere only continuing tlie discussion till an endless period. Instead of squabbling about an appointment the best. Avav As-as to state Avliat ought to be tbe principle" of government in the place, and certainly Avhether His Honor Avas prepared to carry on the Government in accordance AA-ith those views or not. He moved the suspension of the Standing Orders to enable him to make two motions. Mr. TARLTON said thero Avas no necessity for suspending if the motions Avere on the same subject. Mr. SPEAKER ruled that it Avas necessary. I Mr. STUART would oppose the suspension in that case. Mr. CALDER read his motions, leaving' it to the Council to say Avhether they avci-o ou a fresh subject or not. Mr. SPEAKER ruled they avcvc not initiating a neAV discussion. Mr. STUART then would move the previous question. Mr. TARLTON pointed out that if the previous question Avas carried, the motions Avould be throAvn out. Mr. CALDER'S only idea in bringing them on then, Avas to get matters settled quickly. If there Avas any objection, he Avould give uotici in the usual way for Monday. Mr. SCOTT considered it very desirable that the House shoidd be unanimous on the subject, and to discuss those motions then, he did'not think unanimity Avould be the result. Mr. CALDER then gave notice in the usual AvaA-, for Monday morning's sitting. . Mr. TARLTON held this to be positively AATon°*. They sat a quarter of an hour the previous night to alloAv the gentleman to prepare his motion. It avrs then adjourned till-to-day, and noAV tlicy avci-c putting ifc off till Monday. Mr. CALDER thought there AA-as a mistake, The motion of the previous night Avas not brought on then, and his second motion AA-as quite distinct, on a iioav subject that must initiate discussion. Mr. CHALMERS explained that he moved the adjournment, the previous evening, in order that the gentleman might have tune to prepare his motion AA-ith that care and courtesy AA-hich the occasion demanded. Mr. ROGERS considered that after ten days discussion, they Avere in a position to express their opinions on the subject, and consider the motion. Mr. CALDER Avishcd it deferred till Monday, Avith a vieAV to have an unanimous vote. Mr. ROGERS did not intend that Mr. Calder' s motion should be the one adopted. They could go upon ifc and by amendments, | or otherwise arrive at an unanimous opinion. I After a long discussion, in the course of I which , half-a-dozen motions or amendments As-ere made, AA-ithdraAvn, and others made again, the following, by Mr. Stuart, Avas put from the chair, but neither adopted nor rejected:— "That this Council has carefully considered the rejoinder of His Honor to the reply of the Council to the address, and it respectfully begs to adhere to the statements made in that reply. Mi*. ROGERS mentioned having asked the Superintendent Avhether Mr. Dundas' s appointment AA-as in an envelope or net, and he replied that it Avas, but whether sealed or unsealed he could not positively say. Mr. STUART here withdrew his motion. Mr. M'KAY w^as going to communicate a conversation he had had with His Honor. Mr. TARLTON : Wrong, very wrong. Mr. CHALMERS : Oh ! it will be much better to allow him to speak and sheAAMr. M'KAY:— His ability. (Laughter.) Leaving the conversation, lie condemned the Executive for not having rales draAvn up defining tiieir relations. Mr.- CHALMERS *. It is strange that the hon. member should have been tAVO and a half years in the Executive and never found that out till noAv. Mr. M'KAY Avas ahvays in a minority then. Had he been in the majority he woidd have had rules dravA-n up. Mr. STUART again put his motion in an amended form. i Mr. CALDER seconded. ; Mr. ROGERS compared the Council to the bundle of sticks in tho old fable. They Avere unanimous but'noAV they had split into half a dozen parties,: had half a dozen resolutions, and' each "member -wedded to Ids particular piece of paper, each and all being very much alike. Unless this was stopped, like the hundleot sticks they would be ; broken one by one. He moved as ah amendment tAvo resolutions in substance' the same as Mr. Calder's, for. the. 'purpose of bringing the debate to a conclusion.:; '.. ; AAA , ;.- Mr. HOWELL seconded. , ' Mr. .COWAN moved to the effect that HisHonor be informed in a specific way of the charge against; hini. •-.'.-. . . xi Mr. M'KAY,sccbndcd it. "... A ... '..',,.'.'• V '..*■-■ v ' MiiSS^E 'FEOM HIS HbNOB. ' , ■A Message''N6:-.li &dm> Hie re-. ceived and ready It enclosed draft: of .a^Bi!!

for making provision to repay' the loan- to be raised by Debenture- for the < toynx of Inrercargill. 5 :'•'' = ' r ■ . D33DATE BESTBIED. f ; After some remarks from Messrs** Stuart and Chalmers , „ ;-'■..- --; Mr, KO& ERS withdrew his motion on consideration that ho might bring it forward, at some future, time. -„-.•',-,. Mr. SPEAKER was about to put Mr. Stuarts' motion arieS Mr, CoAvan's amendment whoUi -■.-■-, ■,• l !•■-■' -.. ?'•"•" -, A * Mr. iTARLTON objected to both, as they didnot answer what His Honor demanded and had a-right r to; demand.; Ho concluded 1 somo ; lengthy remarks by stating his opinion that a'; dissolution would be necessary. W' a considerable -oeriod tho Counoil was next occupied ih hearing <( explanations " and remarks from seA*eral hon. members. At last business proceeded by Mr. STUART withdrawing his motion. ; Mr. CALDER thon made a motion as [ a reply to His' Hoiior, in .which was instanced the appointment of ' Engineer of Roads and Bridges as' a case' where he had acted without consulting liis Executive. Mi\ STUART seconded the motion. Mr. ROGERS asked if that was a charge? It was an instance; not a charge. The charge was that the Superintendent liad violated the principles laid doAvn in their reply. Mr. TARLTON made a long motion to that effect, and also stating how the Government should be condu'c ted in future, and in sisting that His Honor should Avork with an Executive. The CHAIRMAN was again putting Mr. , CoAvan's motion Ashen Mr. TARLTON moved — " That the House adjourn till Monday, as they Avere not likely to'conie to an agreement. Mr. STUART seconded the motion. Messrs. COWAN and CHALMERS opposed it. Mr. COWAN Avished to luioav Avhat became of liis motion if the House adjourned ? Mr. TARLTON : It will be lostMr. COWAN objected, and after some discussion, it avus arranged that he should Avii.lidraw it then, and give notice of motion for Monday. Notice* of Motion. Mil Cow ax gave notice that at Monday morning's sitting, he AA-ould move — "That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, informing him in a specific av:iv in Avhat manner this Council desires, on the point of His Honor the Superintendent a distinct recognition ofthe principles and duties of responsible goA-ernmcnt." Mr. Chalmers intimated that on Monday morning he Avould move — " That in the opinion of the House, your Honor has acted AA-itliout tho advice and consent of the Executive Council, in one instance, for example— in the appointment of an Engineer of Koads anil Bridges. We consider that no independent action should be taken by your Honor in matters in AA-hich the Superintendent is bound Avith the advice and consent of the Executive Council ; further, Aye consider that your Honor should in all matters consult the Executive Council, for although no Provincial law can control your Honor's action in the exercise of powers conferred by a superior Legislature, Aye consider those powers conferred only for the benefit of the Province, and that your Honor in acting by the advice of the Executive Council in these mutters, Avould more fairly represent tlie taClS 'position of a Superintendent." Mr. Caldhk. gave notice that on Monday morning he ayouUl move— " That this Council requires that theTxpenditurc of all monies appropriated by it to the public service, and Ihe exercise of all poAvcrs dcriA-ed from the Provincial Council shall be conducted by members of its own body, and responsible to it." As on tlie previous night, all other bmincss on the Order paper avus postponed, and the House adjourned at 2.15 p.m.