EVENING SITTING.

Southland Times, Volume III, Issue 46, 22 February 1864, Page 3

EVENING SITTING.

The, ' ; Deputy-Speaker topk the chair at seven; o'clock. Present — Messrs. Scott, Calder, Stuart, Wilson, HoAA'ell, Jackson, Rogers, M'Kay, Cowan and Chalmers. ELECTOEAX DISTRICTS, AMri Tarlton laid on the table a map of the neAV electoral districts, on wliich each separate district was marked in colors. They A\-ere thirteen in number, and the map was open for,:, 'the ■ [inspection of the members. The explanations of the boundaries had been drawn up. with great care, but the statement iras not laid on, the table as quite correct. 1 ; HIS hoxob's rbplt. Mi*. CHALMERS, in a few words, moved that the reply from His Honor the Superintendent be taken into consideration. Mr. SCOTT seconded the motion. ' '•*' "MESSAGE PEOni EIS HONOE. The following message (No. 10) Avas received and read. " To the Provincial Council of Southland. " In. reply tb an address on the subject from. the : . Provincial Council, the Superintendent, while he entirely concurs in the desirability of taking steps to establish a Library, for. the use of the Provincial Council, and of applying a sum of money for this purpose, yet for various reasons is unwilling to disturb the; balance between the estimated Revenue and Expenditure for the period ending 30th September, he would suggest to the Council whether. the necessary sum might not be applied -from the vote for contingencies under the* miscellaneous department, if the Council should not approve of this, but express its opinion that a certain sum should be devoted to this i purpose from savings on other A-otcs, or by- a,, supplementary vote, the Superintendent'withcarry out its AAishes willingly. -■ ■■*•■••'• "J. A. R. Menzies, y. .... "Superintendent. "" Superintendent's Office, Southland, 19th Feb., 1864. COJfSIDEEATIOX 01? EEPIY. Mr.- TARLTON Avas very unwilling to occupy the time of the House, but he had waited; in the hope that some gentleman Avould iise for the purpose of taking the reply into" consideration, but since none had preaented himself, he felt bound to make one remark. He would not attempt on the occasion to take up the great argument contained in the reply, even if he felt able 'Vto' . grapple AA-ith the subject. But he must refer to the two last paragraphs, simply because there was a statement in them which had ai direct reference to himself. The Superintendent held that he had a right to demand that the charge shoidd be made specific and openly ;; aiid when it Avas ascertained at Avhat time his. actions had laid him open to censure, he would be prepared to meet it. He (Mr. TaTltbn)' .believed no one in the Council had been in ;ahy. Way instrumental in doing what the paragraphs inferred. He was not quite sure whether they did right in not distinctly noticing the last paragraph of the memorandum. *He did think, on looking at it, and comparing it . "with the quietude and tranquility which prevailed in the others, 'a few lines might have been Avrifcten -with some excitability of feeling, and therefore he had not touched upon '-* thenr. With regard to the circular, calling . the private meeting of members he said that nine respondedysoine at considerable'ihconvenience. Among others he AA-as. present; himself. After waiting some considerable : time in the hope that both parties who signed the note would be present, they, found T. that Mr. Chalmers was not coming. Tnis was not fair, but though a little angry at the. time he (Mr. Tarlton) feltVmorally .certain something imperative compelled Mr. Clialmers to be absent. The other gentlemen stated the purport of wha,t had called them together. It was, that busiwas being done by the Superintendent, without the consent of the Executive. Mr. Tarlton then went over nearly .the whole arguments already made, and fuUy, reported in our columns. In reference to whether theOEngineer's letter of appointment was open or in a sealed envelope, he said that he saw Mr. Dundas that afternoon, and putting the question to Mm, the gentleman stated that the note was hot delivered in an envelope oat all, and that the person who gave it to him was fully aware of its nature and representations. Mr. Tarltbii said statements of a differ ent kindhad led-thehi'antp a course wliich he might not now approve, (cries of "No, no,"-) They were led into a certain course , of action by the representations, that |hOugh the Executive • advertised for another individual to fill the office, ~ the : Deputy ' Superintendent held a letter in his office for Miv;3}undaß,;: and he was very much surprised to fihd that it contained his appointment. r was"this. principal cause of them taking .the'eoOTse they did,- -but now Mr. Dundas said this document was never in an envelope at all,; it .was'/siinply presented to him in an *' ' bpen '; , shp pf .paper ■with--the-wbraß " thereis -your appointment:" However,; this only affected that portion of the-reply. AOh the > qtiestion -the

Superintendent 1 ., consulted* hia^ Eiecutive to the fail extent he ought, he Avps quite certain they would' hot have met V&i that nijght to 'consider it." He presiimed this wf-,3 Avhatwtis referred -to dn the' concluding part 'of address. Ho would only add that as- His Honor had demanded that the charge . indicated should be stated, it ought to be done, so that whoever, ?srasj mistaken or decoired they might understand it, so that all may: he the better for it) and come to a mutual under•tending. Mr. Dundas, ho said, had no objeo-. tions tp ; appear -before tho , Council and. make his statement if required. ' ; A ■ Mr. SXUABTAvaisorry to hear tho remarks that had been made ; by the ; hon. -member. He (Mr. Tarlton) had given only; the tail end; of the story, and seemed inclined to back but of that note. His (Mr. Stuart's) ground of objection was that Dr. "Menzies had'mado the appointment , witho ut , consulting ? the ; Execu- ; tive, and had- been acting throughout his term of office' Anthout the adA*ice or consent of the Executive Council. j Mr. TARLTON indignantly objected to the words " backing out " being applied to liim. He Avas ; not the man , to do so; i . ■ ; v - : . Mr. STUART denied that the special cause of calling the private meeting was this letter, It was the general question he submitted ,tp fit.. „..-■ Mr. WILSON gave at length his reasons for not signing the note. He believed His Honor Avas not so much to blame, as former Executives avlio were mere candlesticks to His Honor, and not the lights which should have guided him to success. He hold that the Superintendent had a perfect right to exercise, his delagated powers, but gave several instances AA r here he ought to consult with, and take the advice and consent of his Executive Council. Mr. M'KAY referred to the absence of AATitten rules for guidance of the Executive Council. He never considered it liis duty to attend on such occasions, as the appointment of officers, but if a principle Avere involved he Avas ahvays in his place. He complained of all kinds of persuasion being used to induce members to- sign the note. Srr. STUART : Moral suasion. Mi*. M'KAY- : No, more than moral suasion. It had been imputed to him motives of nationality, clannish sympathy, kc, and if he had hot been thicker skinned than he used to be, it Avas most probable lie Avonld have succumbed. Mr. COWA^i AA-ould liave nothing to do with such trifling matters as whether a note Avas open or closed. It Avas the principle embodied in the note on AA-hich he stood. Mr. CALDER also stood bn the same principle, but at the same time it Avas most likely the idea of bringing it prominently foi-Avard afc that juncture, would not have occurred to him unless under circumstances, such as ihe appointment of tho Road Engineer. Mr. CHALMERS said that the Chairman of Committees (Mr. Tarlton) had laid great stress on the fact that he had been misled, or rather that the statements made by the Executive had led him into aAvrong course of actiou. He would ask if the hon. member never heard in a Court of Justice tAVO Avitnesses, each respectable honest men, sAvear directly opposite. Every LiAvycr at all events kneAV of such cases, which Avere just a parallel with the question before them. He did not at all doubt that Mr. Dundas conscientiously believed his appointment Avas handed to liim open, but tlio facts nevertheless were true. When Mr. Dundas called first they had si long conversation about the Roads", his duties, &c., in the course of Avhich liis appointment Avas handed to him. He opened the envelope, glanced at the contents, put them down loose on the table, ancl the conversation Avont on. When he rose to leave, he (Mr. Chalmers) handed the document to him, saying " yon had better take this with you," as he saAV thafc Mr. Dundas Avas leaving Avithout them. Mr. WILSON moved that the House go into Committee on the reply of His Honor. Mr. M'KAY seconded the motion. Mr. TARLTON insisted that before going into Committee the Council Avas bound to make a specific charge against His Honor, and if they di.l not do so they Avere not fulfilling their dut>-. Mr. STUART replied, and after some discussion, Mi*. WILSON asked leave to AvithdraAV his motion. Mr. COWAN opposed the request, demanding a reason. Mr. WILSON : Because having moA'ed that the House go into Committee they did not seem inclined to do it. Some confusion followed as to AA-hat Avas really before the House. Explanations ensued, and leave being denied, Mr. WILSON again moved that the House go into Committee. Mr. SPEAKER — Hoots, this Avill never do. It is making the Council ridiculous. Better send for a tiddler next. (Laughter.) Mr. TARLTON AA-anted to know Avhat lie was to do in Committee Avith the reply. It was a perfect puzzler to him. Mr. CHALMERS Avould ansAvcr the lion, gentleman. They Avould just do Avhat they had been doing for the last ten days — do nothing. Mr. CALDER agreed AA-ith his colleague (Mr. Tarlton) on the necessity of making a specific charge. He moved a resolution, charging His Honor with making a certain appointment Avithout consulting the Execi'tivc. Mr. TARLTON seconded the motion, though he did not think it met the case. The resolution said that in this appointment of Road Engineer, the Executive Avere not consulted, iioav they were told His Honor and the Executive had a long deliberation. LL*, CHALMERS said it was true they AA-ere consulted, but then they were told that the appointment was as good as made. "What Avas the use of consulting in that case ? (While Mr. Calder av»s writing Ms motion) Mr. TARLTON asked leave to bring up the report on the Representation Bill to-mor-row, instead of on Monday, as Avas moved. Leave granted. Mr. CHALMERS moved the suspension of the Standing Orders, and that, the House meet next day at twelve. Agreed. Mr. CALDER not being ready, Mr. WILSON moved—" That as the reply of His Honor the Superintendent to the reply of Council to His Honor's address, demanding that the charge indirectly conveyed should be made specifically and openly ; itis the duty of this Council, to inform His Honor that tlie charge is, that His Honor the Superintendent made an appointment to a very important office Avithout the advice and consent of the Executive Council." Mr. CALDER wished the motion withdrawn. Agreed to. : Mr STUaRT asked Avhat was before the House ? Mr. SPEAKER : Nothing at all. Mr. CHALMERS moved— " That the debate be j adjourned till next day, in order to give. Mr... Calder tune to frame his motion."-. Mr. CALDER seconded. Agreed to. : On the .motion of. Mr.. CHALMERS, the . H'oush adjourned at 9.30;. tlie other orders of the day being "left -over till the conclusion of of the "debate on His Honor's reply.