CARLYLE DEBATING SOCIETY.

Patea Mail, Volume IV, Issue 341, 24 July 1878, Page 2

CARLYLE DEBATING SOCIETY.

The following are the arguments adduced by the Rev P. W. Fairclongh (affirmative) ami Mr Tennent (negative), at the meeting on Thursday night last— AFFIRMATIVE. I. Many advantages which gave England her past and present preeminence, are passing away. 1. The advantage of vast sea-board, arising from her insular position, is not so important as it used to be. Railways annihilate space. Manchester and Berlin arc now groat cities, though inland. 2. The advantage of geographical position is less .than formerly, for steamers do at sea what railways do on land. 3. England has no longer a monopoly of skill and invention. She had the first free press, the first free constitution, the first steam-engine, the first railway, and the first steamer. She protected her monopoly by forbidding machines and skilled men to leave the country. Being first in these things, gave England a great start—just as being first with the noedle-gnn enabled Prussia.to alter the map of Europe. But knowledge' can no more be shackled than the sunbeams. Others hove lit their torches at hers, and her monopoly is gone. 4, England first felt the effect of population being crowded off the soil into mills. When her population was 8,000,000, fifty per cent, were engaged in agriculture. The number had remained constant, and forms only 12 per cent. now. The increase had all gone to other than agricultural pursuits. This inevitably made England a manufacturing and commercial nation. France, Germany, &c., had now 50 per cmt. of population on the soil. This number must remain almost constant; the increase would therefore be crowded into manufactories. This would affect England in two ways. It would bring fresh bidders into the food ynarket where England buys, thus raisihg the price; and fresh vendors into the market where England sells, thus reducing the prices. 11. It is impossible for England’s trade to increase at the present rate, for a great length of time ; for her supply of coal, which is the sine qua non of commerce, is limited. The out-put doubles in less than 20 years. Many high auhoritios consider that at this rate, by 1970, the supply will bo exhausted, while other Nations will be only opening their immense stores. Then Macaulay’s New Zealander might prepare for his sketching tour. Yet if coal were used at a lower rate, England could not hold her own. Thus if she exhausts her supply of coal she falls behind, and if she doesn’t she falls behind.

111. England's trade is falling off. The continent buys her pig-iron, and sends her bkek the manufactured article. Americans send hardware to Birmingham, and cotton stalls to Manchester. The ship-building trade was being driven out of the country by strikes. There were 171 strikes in England last year. The English were great strikers; for they could emigrate when the worst came to the worst, and still bo among countrymen. The military people of the Continent were more subject to rule. For them to emigrate, was to hear their

children speak a strange tongue, and bow to a flag their fathers hated. England will therefore suffer more from strikes than other countries.

IY. England is trading unsoundly. Her imports excceiled her exports in 1874, by £72,000,000, and in 1877, by £130,000,000. It had been argued in the Economist that this excess represented a balance on the wrong side, and was impoverishing the country. In France, the exports exceeded the imports by £5,000,000, and were gaining at the rate of £600,000 a year. In the United Slates, the exports of 1875 exceeded the impoi ts by £32,000,000. This was sound trading. V. England’s limited area limited her population. The Wealth of Nations proved that the population of a now country like the United States, would advance in geometrical progression—as 2, 4, 8, 16, &c., doubling in less than

25 years ; whereas in old countries, such as England, it could only advance in arithmetical progression—as 1,2, 3, 4, 5, &c. The census proved this law had held good. It would continue to do so for a long time to come. When the population of England numbered 50,000,000, ‘the United States would probably number 500,000,000. The Anglo-Saxons were being* scattered over the earth, while other races united, and found room at home. England was a first power when Russia and America were nothing■. They had certainly gained in the race, and would probably not wait for little England. Holland was an example of decline in spite of prosperity. She was four times as populous, and twenty times as rich now, as when London trembled at her gnns, yet she was then a first power, and now nothing. An oak tree cannot flourish in a flower-pot as another will in mother earth, neither can there be in England a people as great as in Russia, America, or Australia. In conclusion, the speaker said the wish was not father to the thought. It was not that he loved England less, but that he loved truth more. NEGATIVE. 1. A slight sketch was given of the relative power of England to other countries since the twel/th century, pointing out that then England was an insignificant power, not even possessing Wales, and that her rise to greatness had been very gradual, and there was no

reason to suppose it had reached its climax yet.

2. Taking her Indian and Colonial Empire into consideration, England was now the greatest and most powerful nation in the world, the population of the Empire being about 215 millions, and the area one-third of the habitable globe. And further, in riches, commerce, and enterprise, she stands foremost among the nations. 3. England’s navy is the most powerful in the world—equal to that of any two other nations ; ami her army, though small compared to those of the great military powers, is large enough for her requirements, and can be indefinitely expanded in any great war. 4. There was every reason to hope that in a not very distant period there will be a grand confederation of the whole Empire, and that Australian and Now Zealand delegates may join in legislating for this vast Empire in Westminster Hall.

5. The insular position of England still gave her exceptional advantages in war, and those advantages were likely to remain.

6. As to coal becoming scarce, England became great before coal was used for manufactures and steam, by the energy and pluck of her sons, and that energy still remains. Further, in one or two hundred years, some new motive power may be used instead of steam — electricity for example. 7. The argument that because the imports are much greater than the exports, England is spending her capital, did not hold good, as England was the banker of the world, and having money invested in nearly every country in the globe, derives interest therefrom, which enables her to spend say, £100,000,000 a-year on luxuries.

Mr Tregear spoke strongly in favor of the original motion. Mr Finuerty took part with the negatives, and strongly criticised the remarks made by both speakers. Mr Fairclough replied briefly, when the question was put to the vote, the negatives gaining the day by a small majority.