PARLIAMENT.

Oamaru Mail, Volume IV, Issue 1319, 15 July 1880, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

: Wellington, July 13. In the Legislative Council to-day, At the request of Sir F„ D. Bell, Mr. Peacock's motion re honorarium was adjourned till next day. Mr. Peacock and the Speaker expressed themselves perfectly satisfied with the explanation given re mis-report of the motion. Dr. Menzies moved that the Education Act be so amended as to permit of the Bible being read in schools, subject to a conscience clause. The mover spoke one hour without adducing any new argument in favor of the proposal. Mr. Whitaker, in summing up the reasons in favor of the present system, said the Government were firmly determined to resist any change to the present Act. Several speakers followed, all deprecating the raising of the question, but asserting that education could be much economised. Ultimately, the previous question was carried by 14 votes to 8. . Upon the motion for the third reading of the Deceased Wife's Sister's Bill, Mr. Acland moved that it be thrown out. Dr. Grace pointed out that a man who married his sister-in-law might travel to England au<j rhere discard her while the English law was unaltered. The third reading was carried "by 14 votes to. 9. A; large amount of important business was disposed of, and the Council adjourned ats. p.m. In the House of Representatives today, Mr. D.ick, replying to Mr. Thomson, said he was in possession of information as to the extent to which settlement has advanced under the Land Act Amendment Act of last session, and specially under the clauses relating to village and special settlements, and that it would appear in the report of the Crown Lands Department, Replying to Mr. Reeves, Mr. Oliver said an Inspector of Coal Mines had been appointed, but not an Inspector of Gold Mines for the Middle Island. The cost of such an appointment would be very considerable, and in the present state of the finances he did not think such an expense could be judiciously incurred. Sir W. Fox moved^- u That in the opinion of this House the Education Act be so amended as to provide for permissive power being granted to the Education Boards to introduce the reading of the Bible in schools, subject to a time table and conscience clause." He contended that it was the feeling of a majority of parents in the Colony that the Bible should be read in school. He called on the Government to take steps for ascertaining the opinion of parents on this subject. He would suggest a. house to house canvass. Nine-tenths of the population professed some form of religion, based on Reaching, and yet that was the only book prohibited. They might use books dealing with heathen mythology, or any other book they liked, but the Bible —the foundation of the faith of so many religions - was the only book excluded. They were practically speaking a Christian nation. This Colony and Yictoyia were the only places whgrp the reading of the Bible was prohibited in schools. In America not' only was it read, but the Lord's Prayer, and Christian hymns were used. He was in favor of a conscience clause and a time table. By that means scrupulous minded people could keep their children away. In the London schools a conscience clause was in force, and it was found that only one child out of 4@Q was kept away d ur ing the reading of the Bible. The tendency to larrikinism he attributed to non-reading of the Bible in School's, pointing out that the larrikin element was composed of the better class of boys. Dr. Wallis seconded the motion. He denied that the teaching of the Bible was exclusively of a religious character. It was a book, from which intellectual training was to be obtained. For moral teagh' ing that was undoubted, Mr. lyollestQn could not support the resolution, although he agreed with much that had been said. The question was surrounded by many difficulties intensified by the ecclesiastical feeling that had been imported into it. He could not agree in the opinion that the house to house canvr.ss v.-ould result in favor of the reading of t;io Bible. One-eighth of the population were Roman Catholics, and it Avas no use saying that their verdict would 1 e iu that direction. The question was this, Would the introduction of the Bible foster the national system of education ? He maintained it would not. The motion was inopportune, and if carried would destroy that system. It was wrong to say that the system of education admitted every description of book into school teaching. After considerable experience in America they had come to the conclusion that moral and religious instruction were inseparable form their educational system as a proper basis- Be did not wish to see their school system driven back to denorpinationalisjn, nor yet did he wish to see it get wholly into the hands of a class having a contempt for all religious instruction. He could not agree that larrikinism was the result of their educational system. It had its root in other causes. The importation of families from different parts of the world without any .fixed religious training was to a great extent responsible for that state of things. The educational system as it stood had not had a fair chance of bearing fruit, and it would be a great pity to destroy it before its results and effects were made known and felt. The denominational sys- 1 tem could not possibly be founded in this country, but nothing but a national system of education could bg to the outside masses of children. He hoped they would pause before they attempted to break down a fabric which they had been at so much trouble to erect. Mr. Stewart said that the reading of the Bible in schools was essential for the proper training of the children, In the Cqurts of Justice j.t.wp,s ajaippntable thing to find children on b'eing called in evidence, admitting that they knew nothing whatever about its teaching, In consequence of that lack of training it was not unfrequently found that the ends of justice were defeated. He heartily supported the motion. Messrs. Saunders and Ireland opposed the motion. The debate was interrupted by the adjournment at 5.30. The House resumed at 7.30. The Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Bill was received from the Council, and read a first tim?. Qn the motion for going into Committee, Mr. Hall moved that Mr. Hurst act pro tem as Chairman of Committees. Mr, Macandrew thought an older and more, experienced member shoqld be seleoted, He named Mr, Thowaon, Mr. Shrimski formally moved Mr, Thomson to the chair. Mr. Andrews said that Mr. Hurst's selection was a most objectionable one. Sir G. Grey blamed the Government fi»r having taken the House by surprise on this occasion. Mr. I)ick replied that on a former occasion Mr. Hurst had been nominated as Chairman pro tem., and he had fiischarged its duties satisfactorily. • • Mr. Swanson said that in the Provincial Council Mr. Hurst had had a considerable amount of experience in these duties, and ho could sop i<o reaaop wljy any opposition 3hould be made to thp proposal. Mr. Moorhouso suggested an amendment t" withdraw. i Mr. Thomson said he was not consulted us to his hahio boing'put' forward on this occasion. Ho was sensible of the honqr but hp could not think of oo»

cupying the chair unless he was called to it unanimously. He asked that his name might be withdrawn. Mr. Reeves said this was another attempt on the part of the Government to confer honors on a political partisan. He contended that Mr. Hurst had not the confidence or respect of the House as a whole, and he looked upon the proposal as a deliberate insult to that side of the House. Mr. Barron suggested that Government could very easily find another member to preside that would not be objectionable to members. Mr. Thomson's name was withdrawn. Mr. Seddon suggested that Mr. Hurst's name be withdrawn. With the view of at once ending the difficulty, he proposed Colonel Trimble. Mr. Macandrew suggested that the motion as it stood should be put at once.. Those opposed to it could record their votes and save time. Sir G. Grey appealed to the Government not to press the motion, seeing that it was so very objectionable to that side of the House. Mr. Sheppard appealed to Mr. Hurst to solve the difficulty and decline to allow his name to be put to the vote. By that means he would prove his fitness to be elected at some future time. Colonel Trimble said it was out of the question that a mere routine piece of business should be taken out of the hands of the Government. He was sure the Premier had no party feeling when he proposed Mr. Hurst. ' Mr. Stewart moved the previous question, but he was ruled out of order, as there was an amendment. Mr. Speight urged that the matter should be decided by going to the vote at once. Mr. Hall said, after the speeches made on the other side, it would be impossible for the Government to withdraw from the position they had taken up or for Mr. Hurst to retire. Mr. Beeves said that the Opposition knew the Government could put their man into the chair by brute force ; still, he hoped they would see their way to withdraw. On the question that Mr. Hurst's name stand pare of the question, the House divided : Ayes, 37 ; noes, 33. Mr. Stewart then moved the previous question. He pointed out that the division showed there was a large proportion of the House against him. No man with any self-respect would think about occupying the chair with a bare majority of four in his favor. No one would occupy the chair who had not the unanimous, or all but the unanimous, voice of the House. Mr. Bunny seeonded the motion. Mr. M'Lean said Mr. Stewart had been indebted to the Government party for his return for Dunedin, and when he left that side of the House to join the Opposition, did they attempt to persecute him as he attempted to persecute Mr. Hurst? His (Mr. Stewart's) going over was one of the most barefaced cases of ratting that had ever taken place in the House. He left them because he was to get a seat in the Government which never came into existence. Had Mr. Stewart been proposed for the chair, he could quite understand that not only would two thirds of the members vote against him, but they would actually walk out. Mr. Beeves said, with such a bare majority, it was quite impossible to say that Mr. Hurst could conduct the business with any degree of credit to himself or advantage to the House. Mr, Maorhouse said the motion was aimply a device to prevent effect being given to the voice of the majority. Mr. Seddon argued that there was no majority, at all events not a majority which would warrant anyone taking the chair. Mr. Lundon moved the adjournment of the House. . _ Mr. Stewart said the member for Waikouaiti had gone out of his way to cast unjust aspersions on his character. He could assert that he possessed the confidence of the public in as high a degree as the member for Waikouaiti. If he (Mr. M'Lean) persisted in these unjust aspersions, he would take an opportunity to have him brought before the bar of the House in a manner he did not expect. He defended his conduct in objecting to Mr. Hurst as perfectly reasonable. The hon. member for Waikouaiti laughed, but he could make that hon. member laugh in a very different way if he liked, Mr. M'Lean challenged Mr. Stewart to make any personal revelations he could. He felt sure of this, that if Mr. Stewart could do him any harm he would do it on the spur of the moment. The hon. member had gone to Dunedin, and got 50 of his friends to attend a meeting. In the course of his speech he wearied out the few constituents that came to meet him. After they had gone they got his friends to pass a vote of confidence in him." ■ Mr. Stewart denied the truth of this, and Mr- Barron corroborated him. The motion for adjournment was negatived on the voices. The House divided on the motion that the question be now put, Ayes, 41; noes, §7Mr. Beeves said, in the present state of mind jn whioh the House was, it was plain that no business could be done. He moved that the House now adjourn. Mr. Turnbull seconded the motion. Mr. Hurst said the Premier had asked him to take . the chair that evening. Beyond that he he had nothing to do with the matter. He felt he would have been doing himself an injustice if he had, as he was strongly disposed to do, followed the example of the member Clutha, and retired. The main objeotion against him was that lie had seen it to be his duty to change sides. He did it in all good faith ; at the same time, he felt it was an injustice to him to try to destroy his public reputation. He regretted what had transpired that evening, and he now begrudged to withdraw from the position to whig'h h e had been \;oted. Aspersions had been cast upon him by persons whom he hardly knew, and felt he had been most unjustly treated. Mr. Hall said that the oonduot of the Opposition forged the Government to insist on motion. Now, however, that Mr. Hurst wished to retire, the Government would not objeot. At the same time he desired to express the opinion of the Government that the course adopted by Mr. Hurst was a dignified one. | Mr. Reeves withdrew his motion for adjournment. The House went into Committee on the Members' General Expenses £sill, and after a few unimportant clauses had been considered, Mr. M'Lean moved that progress be reported. The House divided : Ayes, 34; noes, 33Progress was reported, and the Bill made an order of the day for that day week, T.h fl House went into Committee on the Dentists' Billj which pasged with amendments. The House went into Committee on tho Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill. Subsection 2, of clause 17, was struck out on a division. Clause 19 was also struck out. At 12.30 the House adjourned.