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New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IV, Issue 237, 6 November 1847, Page 4

Present —His Excellency the Governor, and four members; absent, Mr. Merriman and Mr. Domett. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. The Colonial Treasurer rose to present a memorial, which was signed by 253 persons, of the Presbyterian, and other religious sects, in Auckland, against the Education Bill. The memorial was one in which he concurred, and he therefore moved that it should be read. ' The Colonial Secretary seconded the motion, and the memorial was read accordingly, —and after a pause The Governor enquired of the Council how they intended to dispose of the document which had just been read. The Colonial Treasurer did not deem it necessary to move that the memorial should be printed, as he believed that by the reading of it all the objects had been gained, for now that the omission of the Presbyterians and other sects from the wording of the bill, had been brought under the notice of the Council, he was sure that the bill would be amended in the most liberal spirit. Mr. Brown thought that it was most essential that the memorial should be printed. The Colonial Secretary said that the tone of the memorial was not respectful; several expressions contained in it were most improper ; and although he perfectly agreed in the principle of it, yet he must object to the terms of remonstrance in which the memorialists' sentiments were conveyed. If the individuals who had signed this memorial thought that the bill was not such as they desired—their proper course would have been to have suggested amendment, by shewing good reason why their names should be introduced, and they would have found that their prayer would not have been disregarded by the Council. The Governor said his opinion was that the document should not be printed. It so happened that he fully concurred in the principle embodied in it, but he believed, that in form and language it was not strictly correct. He was the originator of the bill now complained of, and it was his duty to propose it, as well as all others, for their consideration; and if the Council thought that amendment was necessary, it was in the power of any member to propose it —but it was not the province of any body of people to come forward as in this case, in the character of remonstrants, and interfere between him and his Council. It was the most extraordinary proceeding he had ever known, and one which the Council ought to take care should not be made a precedent. Mr. Brown thought that the term " remonstrance," which occurred in the memorial bore ■a different meaning to that put upon it by his Excellency. The word was introduced and must betaken in connexion with the late

"** Marriage Bill," which has passed through Committee, the principle of which had been objected to by himself as well as others, who now felt warmly on the subject — and perhaps words somewhat informal had been introduced more through inadvertence than otherwise. The Governor thought that the honorable member had not paid particular attention to the memorial, or he would have noticed in it other objectionable terms than the one referred to — which he thought could hardly have crept in through inadvertence. Individuals, or any body of any individuals, had no right to use such terms when addressing the Legislature. Great freedom was allowed to petitioners when addressing the Crown, and the greatest attention and respect was paid to their requests, although they might not be put forward in strictly proper terms ; but when the Legislature was approached the case was altered, and the welfare of the state required that petitioners should be very decorous and respectful — or else there would be an end put to free legislation. His instructions upon this head were very clear and decisive. Mr. Brown thought that the memorialists might be excused, as most likely they knew nothing of these instructions, and in addressing the Council were not aware that they were going beyond their privilege. The Governor did not find fault with any one, but he hoped that the Council would not agree to have the memorial printed. The Colonial Secretary thought that the Council had not been treated with candour by the manner in which the memorialists had referred to the Marriage Bill. He could affirm that the greatest liberality was shewn not only by the framer of that bill, but by every memin the Council, while it was passing through Committee; and he had every confidence that the Education Bill would be attended to with quite as great a degree of liberality. The Colonial Treasurer was most ready to withdraw the memorial if it was considered to be in any way disrespectful. He had not seen it till within ten minutes before coming to Council ; he confesed that he had not read it with so much attention as to discover anything improper in the wording of it ; and he was certain that the persons who had subscribed their names meant no disrespect either to his Excellency or the Council. The Colonial Secretary would be sorry to throw any disrespect upon the signers of the memorial, who, he believed, had affixed their names without well considering its contents. The Attorney General would recommend the withdrawal of it. He had noted down during the reading, some of the words that occurred in it, and he could not recommend the Council to entertain a document in which such terms were contained. Mr. Brown thought that his explanation of the offensive terms would have been sufficient to cause them to be overlooked. From all that he had cursorily noticed while the memorial was a reading, he observed nothing that might not be readily pardoned. The Governor had heard no explanation from the hon. member that he could understand. Had the hon. member paid particular attention to its contents, he must have noticed a good deal that was objectionable, and which he would find, if not difficult to explain, at least to substantiate. The Attorney General thought that the Council could not view it in any other light than as a studied insult offered to them. The Colonial Treasurer wished to be allowed to withdraw it. The Governor positively denied the charge implied in the memorial against the Executive Government, of having attempted to infringe upon religious rights. For his own part his conduct in these matters were too well known elsewhere, and here also, ' he believed, for any one who might read the charge contained in that memorial to believe it. But, if it was a matter of fact, his Council ! was not the body to which complaints should be made — if he or the Government had been guilty of what they were accused, then the grievance should be brought under the notice of the Queen, at whose tribunal appeals against the Executive should be made. The memorial stated that these parties were " obliged to remonstrate again and again," and it ' appeared that they would go on to repeat their remonstrances, if the Council now admitted their right by receiving this their document. But he contended that no body of persons had a right to interfere with the Legislature in such a way ; the Council could not permit their duties to be interfered with by remonstrants ; nor did they allow the members of their own body to remonstrate with each other. On looking over the names, he could see that nearly all — indeed perhaps the whole, of those who signed it, had done so inadvertently, and he believed that the imputations and improper terms, were not intended to insult-^ — it therefore was of little consequence to him whether the document was received or

not — bat if received he would not advise the Council to have it printed. Mr. Brown agreed with his Excellency as to the informality of it. The Attorney-General said it was with extreme regret he had heard such a Memorial presented to the Council — he might say that it was a matter of personal disappointment to him, to find that the measure of which it complained, had excited the slightest dissatisfaction in any quarter. Under a constitution in which the people had no small share in the government of the country, no one could admit more readily than himself, the necessity that existed for a vigilant observation on the part of the public, of the acts and measures ef public men. But he thought that mistrust and suspicion might be carried too far, — as certain prophecies had a tendency to to ensure their own fulfilment, so jealousy and distrust when carried to excess, tended to produce the very evils which they sought to avoid. It would be an evil day, he believed, for any community when their public men should be, invariably, and universally, objects of mistrust and suspicion. It was not consistent with the common principles of human nature, for men to be long the object of suspicion, without soon ceasing to be worthy of confidence. Under such circumstances public men would cease to be what they ought to be, and would become what they were thought to be. If, after directing every thought and every energy with singleness of purpose to the public good, men in office found themselves constantly subjected to unjust suspicions, and to the imputation of unworthy motives, they had surely but little encouragement to a continuance in well doing. People might be assured that if they would have true devotedness to service in public servants, it was rather to be secured by the bestowal of a generous confidence. The Colonial Secretary wished to see the memorial withdrawn, although he entertained tbe greatest respect for the individuals who had signed it ; he believed the subscribers were among the most respectable of our townsmen. The Governor said he would raise no objection in the way of its removal. The Colonial Treasurer then withdrew the memorial.

Registration of Bikths, &c. Bitl. On the motion of the Attorney General the Council went into committee on the Registration of Births, Deaths, and Marriages Bill ; but at the request of Mr. Brown committee was aJjourned to Tuesday, that he might have time to prepare a clause to entitle persons who were married before the passing of the Act, to have certain powers of registration.

Debentures Bill. On the motion of the Colonial Secretary the Council went into committee on this bill, and on the preamble being read — Mr/ Brown suggested that the Council should pay off the Debenture Certificates first; or at once allow 8 per cent, interest upon them. Jle objected to the principle of paying the debentures off according to the priority of dates, — for the first large debentures were issued to pay a Government debt which had been borrowed at fifteen per cent., and was therefore but a speculation ; — whereas the debenture certificates were issued for services -rendered to the Government ; and people were forced to take them who could ill afford to want their money. The Governor could see no plan whereby greater justice could be done to all than by the one proposed in the bill. The persons who had advanced money to the Government in the early stages of the colony, upon the faith of Treasury Bills, which had been protested, had suffered great inconvenience, and incurred much expense, and instead of 15 per cent, being allowed his instructions were to pay 5 per cent. only. After considerable discussion the committee adjourned.

Fencing Bill. The Attorney General, after a few prefatory observations, moved the second reading of this bill ; and the further consideration of it was postponed till Tuesday.