COUNTY FINANCE,

Gisborne Times, Volume XXVI, Issue 2103, 31 January 1908, Page 3

COUNTY FINANCE,

THE BIG LOAN REJECTED

MR. 11E1SS'WITHDRAWS ILLS TRAMAVAY PROPOSALS.

*Tho ad iouruod mooting of the County CiiuK-.l in connection with the proposal to borrow .11:00,000 tor the Cout.v roads was held yesterday morning. Present: The Hon. Captain Tucker (in the chair) and ,Crs. R. Shorratt, H. Kenway, A. Fordo Matthews, AV. 1). S. McDonald," AV. D. Lygnar, AN hit*' and K. ,1. Lysitar.

MR. REES’ LETTER. •Mr. AV. L. Rees’s letter (us previously published) was read. Exception was taken to tile clause in tlie letter stating that Alt' Rees might, take advantage id' the permission already granted to use the roads to lav a tram wav.

The Chairman suit! that the only part of the letter requiring consideration was the portion stating that a standing permission was given. 'The permission was given for a specific purpose only. It that work was not fulfilled or even commenced, the permission did not last perimiueiitlv. lie did not wish Mr. Rees to he under a misapprehension, as in the meantime something might have ocurretl to alter the position. Cr. F. .1. Lysnnr said that no definite tune was stated. Tim Chairninii rophed that Mr. Lees should ho given to understand ulmt the real position was, and in lept.ving they should either say that the permission should be for a certain time, and withdraw, or lie mustunderstand that tho permission was not oiion for ever, and would require some renewals.

Cr. Matthews said that the tramway was for the purpose of bringing timber into the place ami it would he as well il permission was extended for a further term to allow him to start the work. 'The Chairman: Ought we to stipulate a time ?

Cr. 1 1 . J. Lysnnr: Give him twelve months.

Cr. AV. D. Lysnnr suggested that the Clerk look up the matter. Air. Rees had called upon him (the speaker) iml he told Air. Rees that he could not- blame him for the withdrawal. He said lie was still prepared to cjtrry out the arrangement, but with J e people. Air. Lysnar stated that no hud seen one oT the guarantors vho was prepared to contract, and ho was safe for £30.000 of £50,000. Air. Rees withdrew his proposals on ac"Oulit of the reception they received. The Chairman: All we have to do is n regard to the guarantors. Cr. Kemvav: The proposal is withdrawn and there is no need to discuss

I’ll Chairman replied that they did not want' it said that it was within wn owing to anv fault of the Council. A remark was made that no one poke against the proposal. Cr. Kenway: I spoke against it. i object to the whole proposal. Cr. Sherratt: My objection to the jlieme is that it docs not benefit nv riding as far as taking the traffic f the roads is concerned. Stono will '•eve to be carted along the same •oad.

The reverse opinion to this was eld by Cr. F. J. Lysnar. The*Chairman: It is premature to rise any objections until we get the "larantees. Cr. Ivenway: AVliy discusss it now? Cr. F. J. Lvsnaf: A 7 ery well. AA T e

in discuss Mr. Rees’ letter. The Chairman: It will fall through, jcause we are waiting for guaranors.

Cr. AV. D. Lysnar remarked that Air, Rees absolutely refused to make .ny ’further offers, but if the Coun- . d chose to go back to him with anything solid he would consider it. The Chairman : AYe could not go to any private individual and say the Council wants tramways and request him to set about it.

Cr. AV. I). Lysnar said that it was desired that the Council go ahead with tramways, not specifically earmarking Air. Rees, and if it did nbt suit the Council to deal with Air. Rees, they could do it themselves. Cr. Kenway moved that the perni'ssion be extended to six months from date, aud reserve the Council the right to extend it further. A tramway would be a public benefit however constructed. The Chairman agreed with this. Otherwise they would be precluded from accepting another offer . Cr. Sherratt suggested that it be added that the Council could take over the line alter due notice. Cr. AVhite: Very likely we will want to. Cr. Lysnar urged that a guarded reply be sent, not to commit the Council in any way and leave it open so that the Council Could review the position. The Chairman was in favor or making the period three months, subject to°such terms and conditions being entered into, as were mutually agreed upon. Cr. Kenway concurred, The position in regard to the original permission was-looked into and ft was found that it was given on Aiarch 20th, 1905. ~ The Chairman said that it would lx* unreasonable to say that that permission was still intact and alnc. 'J he old minutes recorded that Mr. Rees’ proposals wore gone into, but it was decided not to proceed. The Chairman suggested that as nearly three-years had elapsed and there had been an absolute rejection of tho proposal, would it meet with ft e approval of the Council to say that so long & time, having elapsed and no movement or steps having been taken, the Council assumed that they had -fallen to the ground, but they were willing, provided suitable proposals were made, to go into the question afresh. . Councillors expressed themselves m ia vnr of this. . Cr. Matthews: AYe have no desire to block any industry. Councillors: No! No! 'The motion was carried.

THE LOAN'PROPOSALS.

Or W. D. Lvsnar proposed that the motion to borrow £200,000 lie taken separately from tho other portions of the motion'. (Jr. McDonald said that the proposals were continually being altered from day to clay, and any argument for or against ivas knocked clean away. There had, to his mind, never been a- scheme submitted to the Council, only various proposals from time to time. Only Mr Wariens returns had been placed before tho J. Lysmtr: Wliat about the committee’s report ? . / Cr. McDonald said that so far as the return prepared by the Clerk was concerned, thc.re was no al-teia-tioji. The committee was only in agreement that a certain sum ol monev should be borroweddid not have a lair chance of dieussin< r a motion, and it was not ran that the schedule should be eliminated from the motion. lho schedule bad been the bone of contention a I the time. He objected to the alteration of t)ie motion. Cr. Kenway letp irkod that the n thin that should ho taken was that of which notice was given. The Chairman replied 1 that the. 027.000 proposal was withdrawn. Thev could not take two resolutions at once. After passing a motion they could make a mend meats ot tne wording of the other portions. Cr. White proposed, tint the words after “borrow” ho eliminated . 1 hi:would cut out the sum to lie borrowed anti tiie reference to the schedule. The. Chairman and Cr. W. D. Lvsnar said that' this did not artect tlu> question at issue, but Cr. Kenway thought otherwise.. , Cr. Kenway remarked that they were getting deeper and deeper into Idle! mud. Now it was to he taken

section by section, and the mover was trying to foist it on them bit bv IdtJ and it had nothing to do with The' 1 report of the committee. They were drifting entirely from the main •mint They were asked to consider unite' another resolution, and they were now to rote On a principle, not an act.

Cr. Matthews thought that. Cr. AVbite’s amendment was quite ju order. It was simply affirming the principle of borrrowing. Cr. AVhite took it that if his .amendment was lost, the meeting should disperse, as they would bo against borrowing. 'The amendment was carried, Crs. McDonald. IConway, and Sherratt voting against it. The Chairman said that now Cr. AVhite should say what sum was -to be borrowed.

Or. White moved that- £59,000 re harrowed, to he expended as the Council should doodle. 'The annul it was a matter for consideration, and ho d-id not suggest £200,000, as ho did not think it would be carried. Ho suggested that the money l o used on the most necessary works. Cr. AlcDouaUl seconded the proposal to borrow £50,000 at 41 per cent., together with a sinking fund of j per cent-. He had had a notice of motion held over for several months owing to the loan proposals. 11 was that the Council in committee as a whole, select roads, to bo called main County roads, to be constructed out of .loan money, and tlie Engineer lie asked to report on them. He d-d not intend, to vote for a specific sum of money. If the Road Boards woro merged it was very necessary .that there should bo a separation ot the County. The Cook County could only raise £OOOO, and this was totally inadequate. The portion of the County which ho and Or. Lysnar represented was one-third ol the County, and a part ol the Hangaro.i should come in. It was not lor any grievance against the councillors, hut the amount of work upon this Council was very great. If the money was allocated, it would havo to be spent where it was allocated, and that was the reason of his objections.

Cr. AA'. I). Lysnar said that £50,000 was totally inadequate. lie stated that it was not intended to spend the £200,000 at once if granted. The chairman Said -that £50,000 could bo borrowed again. Cr. W. D. Lysnar said he would not vote for £50;,000, as it was a ridiculous sum for the work to be done.

Cr. White stated t-lia-t he signed the committee’s report simply to allow it to be discussed by the Council. Cr. Alatthows said he positively declined to sign the report until it was made clear that it was merely to let it come before tho Council. ' The Chairman said that tho signature ditl not tie them. They might sign it and alter their minds later. He thought that the matter should he decided at this meeting. Cr. AA r . I). Lysnar said that the £50,000 would only allow the metal to ho put oil thinly. Cr. Alatthows suggested that the money he spent from Gisborne outward on main roads. Cr. F. Lysnar said lie must vote against the proposal unless .lie know what his ratepayers would get. He asked if the ratepayers who had good roads would vote for a- further loan? His riding would-not. Cr. Alatthows: Aline would.

The Chairman remarked that the settlers in each riding should receive a share. ■ Unless the £SO.OuJ was to be fairly cut up, it must fail. They could assume that it would be spent fairly. Cr. Alatthows stated that to place tlie 800 miles of County roads in order would cost £1,240,000. They should ask the AJinister to let them borrow £20,000 or £30,000, and then let the ridings boa-row separately. They could not put the matter off, but something must be done, and if nothing was done it would be a disgrace to the Council. The Councillors should all pull together, and not allow the matter to stand as a stigma against their intelligence. Cr. AV. D. Lysnar agreed with Cr. Matthews. Unless, they went for something substantial it was -useless. They should decide to make new works out of loan money, and they would save their maintenance. They should not look at the question in a niggardly way.. He moved as an amendment that t-lie sum to bo borrowed be £200,000. Cr. Alatthows seconded the amendment pro forma. Cr. Kemvav said, they were starting at the wrong end of the stick, as no estimate of the work was obtained. Hero they were borrowing a sum, and then decide how -it was to be spent. The Engineer should be asked to report on the amount'necessary, and then the Council would know what they were doing. These loans were bad in principle, and each riding should see to its own roads. He did not wish to throw any onus on tlie Engineer. The Chairman pointed out that there was very little difference between the two as oven it it was decided to borrow £200,000, only £50,000, say, could be borrowed for the first year. The whole trouble was settling what was a fair subdivision of the money. It there was any suspicion of unfairness, the proposal would be hopeless. £50,000 could be advantageously spent -if they could get it at- 4* per cent., including 4 per cent, sinking fund. £200,000 could be more advantageously spent, and the question arose as to whether it was to be expended on roads or tramways. Then the question would be, where were the tramways to go to and from? Even if they voted for tlie tramways, they would need- money for tlie roads not served by the tramways. The amendment was put first, and lost, Crs. AV. D. and F. J. Lysnar, anil A. Fordo Alatthows voting for it. Tho motion was then put, and only Crs. McDonald and AATiite and tho Chairman voted for-it. The Chairman ruled that the, matter was now douo with, although any Councillor could move at a future timo that any sum excepting £50,00 or £200,p00 ho borrowed.