COAL MINES DISPUTE

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 267, 7 August 1919, Page 6

COAL MINES DISPUTE

THE MAIN DEMANDS POSTPONED ROYAL COMMISSION ASKED ALMOST A RUPTURE STILL A HOPE OF SErTLERIENT

The conference between the Miners' Federation representatives and the coal mine owners was continued yesterday. At the beginning of tho day the representatives of the federation agreed to postpone- the objectionable demands to enable the other demands to be considered,. - the withdrawal being on certain conditions. The owners demanded the absolute withdrawal of tho demands, and not merely their postponement. It appeared that: there was an impasse, but a pioposal was made by Mr. -Weston t" set up a small committee of both sides to consider whether there could not be discovered a basis on which discussions could be continued. This .-■ommittee vas set up and it is to meet to-day. A further suggestion was mado 'hat after tins committee lias reported the demands in detail should be referred to. a larger committee of either side. Sir Gi-orgo Clifford presided at«Jhe conference. •As!the adjournment had been taken to enable the coal miners' representatives to consider the counter-proposals ol the employers, a statement was made first of all on behalf of the miners. Miners' Reply. Mr.'Roberts: We waut.to deal first of all with tho counter-proposals you have submitted. I may say at the outset that wo do not consider them counter-proposals at all. They aro indeed cu-'iiouilage ot the real position. But we huvo a rtply to them, and wo want to put it before you for consideration. Mr. Roberts went on to read the following statement:— 1. That in view of the fc«.t of the Miners' Federation being unable to have access to tho books and a/counts uf the coal inino owners, it would be useless to agree to the appointment of a Government nominee to decide tiie daVcrei:ce of opinion regarding the cost per ton for coal production and the decreased output if the miners' demands \ma granted. However, as the coal mine owners have made certain statements to the conierenco and tho Press as to the increase in the price of coal and the dehreaso in the out put which tho granting of the miners demands would entail, the rimers' re- 4 presentalivcs are of the opinion that'these statements are based solely on the supposition that thore would bo an enormous decrease in the output of coal under a "day wages" system, and in oroer that a true and indisputable decision regarding this question may bo avrived ?t, tho federation urges that: (a) A Royal Commission be appointed to inquire into and report on the coal mining industry. (b) The personnel of such commission be—two representatives nominated by tho coal owners, two representatives nominated by the Miners Federation, and an independent chairman agreed on by both parties. Fading an agreement on tho se.cction of a ohairman the question bo decided by-the Minister of Mines. (c) Tho commission bo empowered to have access to, and inspect all books, documents, accounts, etc., of all the coal mining companies, to , examine witnesses, inspect mines and mining conditions generally, and to issue a report thereon as soon as possible. , ■ 2 That as the offer mado by the employers only suggests that an agreement bo made in tho light of labour conditions generally, and the increased cost of living, wo'fail to see how the suggestion contained in tho employers' counter-pro-pa-als-clauso 1-would effect a settlement of the dispute on tho lines suggested in clause 2. 3. Tho fedoration agrees to discuss with the representatives of State mines tho question of a representative of the miners on the Board of Control. We further agree that the other coal mino owners shall be aUowed time to make further investigations on this question, and the representatives of the miners aro .pro-, pared to discuss the question of representation on the Board of Control at any time tho coal mine owners may decide-. We do not, however, considor that thin question should in any way prevent an industrial agreement being arrived at during the present conference. i. Tho coal question is of such vital importance that, .in the opinion of the federation, the housing question and proper sanitary conditions in all mining towns is a work which tho Mining and Health Departments of the Government should see is undertaken' immediately. The offer mado by the coal owners, in respect to loans under the Advances to Settlers Act, is entirely a Government question, and therefore cannot be coneeeded by the coal mine owners. _ a. Tho question of superannuation to be considered when the report from the Royal Commission on the Mining Industry is presented.

Basis of Discussion. • Mr. Roberts said that in fact the coun-ter-proposals of the coal owners did not contain anything at all relating to an industrial agreement for the miners. It had been found impossible by tho miners' representatives to get the necessary data to deal with tho figures that had been plaeeal before the conference by the mine owners. They had therefore made suggestions which he hoped the owners could consider seriously, and which would, if adopted, give the miners an opportunity of stating definitely iheir opinion on the points raised. It would also give an opportunity to the public of New Zealand of seeing the actual figures from tho miners' point of view as well as from iho coal owners'' point of view. An indisputable decision would be arrived at j-egarding the coal industry generally, the prices paid, and the cost of production. Until this ta-ere done the miners could not entertain any other suggestions. With regard to the figures presented, he had said at the outset that they were' based on tho assumption that there would 1)0 a deorea.se in the production of coal. With this assumption the miners'representatives did not agree.' Ho did not agree because ho 'believed that the eilect of the now conditions would be to uicease greatly the number of men in the mines and that the result would not he a decrease, but an inorcase in the production of coal. The federation hud discussed the counter-proposals very Cully and they said they were not acconiable. The delegates could not think of taking them back to the rank and file of the orgnnisitioi.'. ■ "We have listened to your arguments, he said, "regarding the question of the abolition of the contract system. You lmo named five points to which you obiccted. and voii would not discuss prouosals under any circumstances unless tiiev were withdrawn. I want to indicate to you that it' you are prepared, sincerely and honestly prepared, to onter into an aureenienl with the miners, that agreement can be gone into, but it' you ate going to brinr down continually from dav to day u bunch of figures to f-ett'e tho dispute, then 1 say you aro sainir the wrong way about getting an adiuMnient of this I rouble. I have myself induced the miners to lake a certain stand in that matter, and I want to tell yen. gentlemen, that that ib as far as I inn going to go You have refused to discus?, certain proposals of the miners. An opportunity will be given now to discuss certain of the proposals in these demands, and we ask you whether you are going In discuss the miners' agreement from any standpoint If you are we WiMit an answev. and if you are not; we w.'ir.t an ansivor also. The miners have toon wailing fur four days for something definite regarding this industrial agreement You have given us nothing but ii'inres." The proposals of the minors ri-Mvding a Tteyal Commission could bo eiirin oii with iii o month or in Hie near '.'•.iturc. but the question of Hie making r.l an iuduslri.ii agiecmout must be gone into at this ooi'.l'ticnco, whether there was a Royal Count, ission or not. Tho Five Points. Air. O'Rourko: In continuanco of what I mv friend hao said in cqnnoc-

tion with tho proposals submitted by your people yesterday, I want to endorso his utterances, and I want to tell you candidly and sincerely,, that there was absolutely nothing in the proposals upon which wo could seize and endeavour to build a bridge to get over the difficulty. The Miners' Federation has indicated clearly from the outset that wo are very'much troubled over the coal question in New Zealand. We have no defciro to see an upheaval. We don't want to seo the people starved for coal, and we sincerely beliovo that if we were given seme kiirtl of consideration in our demands, and if you people would take seriously into consideration the organisation oi' your mines, a better organisation of your mines, tho calamity in New foaiaml at the present time would not wntinue. We are confident that if tho tiii-n in the mines had better conditions grin, ted to them, you would have a plentiful supply of men. That seems to be 'lie bugbear, tho bone of contention, raised by you people, that you cannot get m'.-u to enter the industry. We say it, is on ai count of the bad conditions pre/euting men from seeking employment there. That has been proved since tho signing of the armistice. As soon as men had the opportunity of getting into orher ileitis of industry they went out of tho mines. Coming back to the counter-v.voposals, wo endeavoured to find something on which we could build a bridge, b::': we did not find it. In order that there may not be any dislocation or any dissatisfaction as far as wo aro concerned, wo have even decided to go further. We had no mandate on which we could amend any of the points objected to bv you gcntleimcn, but tho delegates agree that these points' he held over for the timo being. We are perfectly prepared .to consider the remainder of" tho agreement. There are certain planks in the pio;.osals of the Mineis' Federation tint mav be taken, and perhaps something satisfactory may bo arrived, at. (luce wo get i that we can take back something to the men and allow them to consider them and decide what the fate will be. If you will not accept, that- then tne onus is on your own heads. iTou will lo responsible,' I say, to the people of Now Zealand. I hope you will consider theso proposals, and continue the discussion as to tho remaining planks in flic agreement. If the rank and file will not accopt we can do no more.

An Adjournment. Mr. Alison: Having heard the statements from tho representatives of the federation, we now suggest that thero should bo an adjournment to enable the coal owners to consider ti.o suggestions that have been referred to by tho speakers. We wish to have sufn-Mont time in which to consider the proposals, and I suggest that wo adjourn until 2 o'clock. Mi-. Roberts: We understand that tho coal owners must havo an opportunity to discuss tho proposals. But I want to sav that if tho adjournment _is only going to result in tho production of another lot of figures, it might just as well not take place. It is no use wasting our time or tho time of the conference in that way any more. Wo havo come to the position that something must be dono. Mr. Roberts had a little moro to say about "talking to Hansard,"'and suggested that there had been enough of it, and that they had now to get down to business.

Mr. Alison declared that the mine owners had not been talking to Hansard. Mr. O'Rourke had said that the federation had agreed that tho fivo points objected to by the mine owners would bo discussed at this conference. Mr. O'Rourke: That is as far as the delegates are concerned. Mr. Alison: You must leave us free in the matter of what wo shall bring forward iii connection with the discussion. But tho five points which tho coal ownors refused to consider were so far reaching and vital in their effects that it was absolutely essential that the figures should be presented. Now that the five points are" eliminated the question of figures will not arise to (lie samo extent as before, but we cannot bind ourselves not to discuss figures in dealing with a question where the granting of demands is I'oing to affect tho cost of production of coal. It must affect the industry, and it must necessitate an increase in the price of coal to the community. There is no alternative on the part of the coal owners but to pass on to tho public any increase in cost. So that if in this conference wo raise obieclion to the sraiuing of demands which ._ might bring about an increase in the cost of production of coal, we are not fighting in our own interests, but in the interests of the welfare of the whole of tho pcoplo of this country, including the largo body of workers, whom Mr. Roberts snys'he represents, for thev aro " s ninch interested in the price of coal as any others. It is a question affecting nil alike, every man, woman, and child in the country. Mr. Roberts: Mr. Alison seems to think thero is a nigger in the woodpile every timo we make a statement. Mr. Alison says ho does not talk to Hansard. That speech he has just made is one of the neatest little Hansard speeches 1 have heard for some lime. You .say that you are considering the public But .you aro also considering profits, and wo on our part arc considering wages. Let us bo honest about it." lie went on to say that his belief was that tho public who needed the coal would not be niggardly in their treatment of the miners. • "Thero are certain statements reaching us from all over New Zealand, not from the miners," Mr. Roberts said, "asking us how tho conference is getting on. Wo want to bo able to reply that the conference is getting on all right. The reply we have been able to send is 'Wo are getting on with the conference. We are dealing with figures.' But a hundredweight of iigu.Vs would not'get a housewife any fuel to cook food for one day." Ho said that the miners' representatives would have no objection to the production before tho conference of the other class ofi figures to which Mr. Alison had, referred. But figures based on supposition could not bo accepted by tho miners any longer. The adjournment.was taken. The Owners' Conditions.

On resuming, Mr. Alison said that the federation had .submitted certain proposals, the first being that a Royal Commission should bo set up. Certain conditions had been prescribed by the federation [o tho personnel and scope of .the'commission. Mr. O'Rourke had said that the demands of the federation which had been objected to would be withdrawn for tho time being, and had asked that the conference proceed to discuss the other proposals of tho federation. Mr. O'Rourke: That is not withdrawn. I made it clear that we had no power to withdraw the demand!. They arc merely held over. Mr. Alison went on lo read tho following statement as from the mine owners:—

"During tho adjournment tho federation proposals have been considered. The coal mine owners are unanimous in tho opinion Hint there is no justification for tlio appointment of a Uoyal Commission to inquire into the industry, in viow oi" the comprehensive report recently made by the Board of Trade. While strongly holding the opinion that no further inquiry is called for, if any bucli investigation should be made info all matters connected with Iho industry, including the federation's demands, and tho effect which the granting of these demands would have upon the industry, including tho reduction of output, the increased cost of production, and tho effect upon tho community generally, the association will be prepared to appoint an assessor or assessors, if requested by Government to do so. If an investigation under tho conditions suggested is decided upon, an of the conference will bo necessary until the report is received. Failing that, if the federation is prepared definitely to withdraw tho six principal claims for the period for which any agreement might be made, employers are prepared to discuss the other clauses in the demands. The coal mine owners, therefore, submit these proposals for consideration bv the federation:— I. Thai in view of the recent exhaustive report of the Hoard ol Trade, the Coal Mine Owners' Association is of the opinion that there is no necessity for the appointment of a Royal Commission as suggested' by the Miners' federation. •J..lf, however, (iovmimcnl decides lo institute l'lirllier investigation, and the whole of tho federation's demands are also inquired into and reported lipon, if it is agreed Hint, ponding tho report, tho existing industrial agreements and awards should remain- in forcCj the «6socia-

tion will be prepared to appoint an assessor, or assessors, to represent it. 3. Should the above proposals lie agreed to it will bo necessary to adjourn the conference until tho. report is received, as that report may involve such changes as will have an important bearing on rates of pay and working conditions in the mines. ■ •I. If, however, an investigation as suggested above is decided upon, the employers are prepared to discuss the remaining federation demands if tho six principal demands, to which exception is taken by the coal mino owners, are definitely and finally withdrawn until the expiration of the term of any agreement which may be entered into''

The "Withdrawal." Mr. O'Rourke: "On behalf of the federation I have, only to reiterate what has been stated licre." Wo have no power to withdraw wholly aind solely the demands. We suggest that we should hold them over for tho time being. Apparently you peoplo have not agreed to that course". The proposal now submitted is oven vaguer than that submitted last night. 1 was under Ihe impression that we had answered your proposals this morning. Apparently the coal owners are endeavouring, for some reason unknown to us, to bring about a crisis, and they, are not showing us the help, or giving us the help, to solvo .tho coal problem in New Zealand that they should do. Ever since wo have been here we have been endeavouring by every .means in our power to get a fair and unbiased discussion of tho proposals, before us. You have evaded us at every turn. I think the New Zealand public will be able to judge of tho situation. You put shadowy proposals before us now which almost bring us lo desperation and cause a rupture of the conference. Thai, it seems to me, is what you people aro seeking." Mr. O'Ronrka went on to refer to the clauses of the owners' proposals in detail. After he had said all that he wished to say he suggested to his colleagues more than to tho conference that there should be an adjournment for five minutes to enable the miners' representatives to consider the situation. Jlr. O'Brien: There is no need to go nwn'y from hero to discuss this.

Mr. Arbuckle: We have adjourned ' enough as far as we aro concerned. We are not prepared to adjourn any more. Adjourn home, that's all. Mr. Bishop (State Mines Department) asked what exactly was meant by tho withdrawal of tho demands as referred to by Mr. O'Rourke. 'J'hey were to bo withdrawn "for tho timo being." Ho wished to know exactly tho meaning of i tho term "for the time being." These demands were 6uch that they could not. bo conceded, and it would not bo possible to go on with tho discussion of the Athor demands until they knew tliat it was certain that these, demands, which tho coal mino owners and the State Department could not concede, would not be raised again.

Mr. O'Rourke said that the delegates had no power to withdraw i.nythiiig. Tho proposals had been put in the hands of tho delegates by the unions, and they were mandatory. What ho had proposed on behalf of his colleagues was that these should be left in abeyance for the time being. Tho remaining clauses could he taken, and then tho delegates could go back to tho rank and filo and say to chem, "Theso aro the answers of tho mine owners on your proposals." He .tdded that perhaps tho rank and file would accept them and perhaps thoy would not.

Mr. Bishop said that.-ho wished to know whether tho delegates agreed to hold over- these clauses pending tho report of tho commission. Mr. O'Rourko: Oh, no-

Mr. Roberts said that tho main purpose of tho Royal Commission asked for by tho miners was in order that there should bo presented to the country an accurate statement of figures. It was tho opinion of tho miners' representatives that this was the only way in which thero could bo obtained this accurate statement of figures. It had been suggested that in the meantime tho miners ought, to bo content until the report of the Roval Commisison was obtained to carry on with the'present rates of pay. That was impossible so far as they were concerned, it would bo from six to nine months before tho commission could report, and that would bo too long for tne miners to wait lor redress. Seeing that it was not possible for the miners' representatives to obtain a discussion of tho principal demands in the agreement, tho representatives ot the miners had, in order that the conference should not break up. in order that it should not bo abortive, asked the owners to discuss as many of the proposals as possible outside ot those to which special exception had been taken. They had done this chiefly because thoy were anxious that the present coal supply of New Zealand should bo maintained. So far as ho was concerned, thero vas no need for any adjournment, as was suggested by the coa'l owners, until F.oniethin" more definite was brought doini. ■If alter the report of the Royal Commission had been prcsefikd there was ned for another conference, the conference could> be based on the report oi the Eoyal Commission,

I Tactics; Mr ilison replied at some length. In I the first demands of the federation there had been six which the coal mine owners had after full consideration, decided that it would be impossible to grant, and they had shown m the clearest possible way by incontestable figures, which the federation had failed to confute, what was going to be the effect of the granting of these demands. The effect was going to be that every u-;er of coal in the country was going to bo penalised 15s. a ton. \That was undeniable. This vas the amount of the estimate of tho State mine. Tho coal owners made the amount somewhat higher. The coaii ownens could not agree to tho imposition on the public of Now Zealand of such an extortionate charge for a commodity that was absolutely necessary for I heir use. The owners had asked that these- six clauses be; withdrawn. Mr. O'Rourke said they would bo held over. Mr. O'Rourke wanted t'he owners to enter into an agreement on the other conditions, and suddenly he would come down on them with these s.ix demands. The owners insisted on the withdrawal of these impossible clauses. H this were done the owners to coma to Wellington, at great of tho demands, and endeavour to come to an agreement. The representatives of the federation had siiid in effect that they were delegates ol the minors of New Zealand, presented a set of demands, and asked the owners to come to an agreement with regard to them. But if the owners: did not grant what they required, the delegates would have to go tack to the unions and ask them to agree with what was suggested. Was that the way in which an agreement could be arrived Mr. Arbucklc: Will you bring all the unions here? 'Mr. Alison said that the delegates should come armed with authority, and that the unions should be prepared to agree with any arrangement that they might make. Was it reasonable under any other arrangement to ask the coal owners to come to Wellington, at great inconvenience, loss, and expense, and then, after they had discussed things for a week or a fortnight, to say to them that the delegates woui'.d lake the agreement back lo the miners and see whether they would accept it? That would bo a preposterous suggestion. Mr. Arbucklc: Let it go back to tho men now and sec how you get on. Mr. Alison: Von claim to represent (he men. Have you no authority as representatives of the federation to deal with this agreement on behalf of the men? If you have not, what ani yon here for? Mr. Arbucklc: Not to be dictated to by Mr. Alison: "Wo don't want to dictate to' you, but wo expect that you us delegates of the federation should have power to enter into an agreement, if, after conferring with us. you agree In the terms, and nol thai, you diouid then refer tho proposals for agreement back lo your unions, liul wo ate no! going to be pur into Ibis position—you are nol goiusr lo draw us into n decision lo enter into an iinrecnient with you regarding the other clause-, and then you come down on us with I lie clauses which we have told voi, we cannot concede. If you have not power to withdraw these clauses, (hen go back lo vour unions and submit to them the position, ami then come Inelto us again." Ho went on to say that the ownors must insist on the withdrawal of theso clauses, bocause they had proved that it would bo impossible to grant them,

More About Respcnsibility. Mr. O'Eourko ha 1 said tlu: tho owners were trying to brill" about a crisis, Mr. Alison continued. Those who did that were going to do this country the greatest injury that it was possible to do. The miners on their pari, and the mine owners on their part, had a great .responsibility. There was an acute shortage of coal, already causing serious hardship to the peopie of New Zealand. It would be a great wronu on lie pan of either side if anything were done to bring about a stoppage 'jt output lruin the mines. . Mr. O'Rourke: Improve the conditions. Air. Alison: How you io mean "improve the conditions"!' Mr. O'Eourke: In the mined. ilr. Alison said that there was a great deal of talk about improving the conditions of the miners. The truth was that the miners of New Zealand were not working under hard conditions, as had been stated continually by iho federation and their represcitaii.-es. They were well paid, and they wee working under splendid conditions, as good as those of any miners in any part of the world. .Mr. Eolicrts: Are they satisfied : .Mr. Alison: Aro they ever-satisfied? Mr. Eoberts: Are !he owners ever satisfied ? Mr. Alison: We never grumble. When do the liiiue owners ever grumble? But you are always making demands' on us. It goes on like the biook. Mr. Arbuckle: You are the only man growing fat on it. Mr. Alison said (hat the miners were doing very much better out of the business than ihe owners of the mines. Tho owners had too muaii trouble in connection with the coal ii dustry. The representatives'of the federation created (lie trouble. i'iieir part was an easy one. The owners' part was much uioro difficult. It had keen suggested that the coal mine owners were afraid to have their books examined. The (ruth of that matter was that the industry was not paying an adequate return on the camtui invested, 'i his had been proved bv the inquiry recently made by tho Board of Trade. It was most unfortiinate that such an important industry should be unprofitable. Mr. Arbuckle: Time the Slato look itover.

Mr. Alison: You are nil anxious to get tho State to take over the mines. There must be something behind that. It must be that, you think there may be an advantage to you in some way, otherwise you would not lie so anxious. He asked tint if there should be any further investigation it should he a complete inYcstmation of the whole industry, and it, should include investigation of the effect of the granting of tho demands of the miners. The inquiry should apply to both sides. Let there be an investigation, and let both sides abide by it. Then it would lie seen whether the demands of the federation would be supported by the commission to be set up. Mr. Arbuckle: We'll show "you what wo agree toi A Hot Moment. There was a very heated exchange between Mr. Alison and Mr. Arbuckle. Mr. Alison said that Mr. Arbucklo had made a certain statement. The' point was really rather a subtle one, and tho Question more or less unimportant, but' Mr. Arbuckle'shouted angrily that-ho had said nothing of tho sort, and said: "I call that a deliberate lie." The chairman at once called him to order.

Mr. Arbuckle did not at once .withdraw the remark. He said: "Mr. Chairman, I have readied the stago when I will not listen to any moro of this sort of stuff. I feel inclined to get out of it." Sir George Clifford called. upon Mr. Arbuckle to withdraw tho word. Mr. Arbuckle: "I withdraw tho word lie.' I used it in heat." Ho asked the chairman as to whether ho had made uso of tho words alleged by Mr. Alison, but like most othor niembers»«f the conference, the chairman could not remember' cither the words used by Mr. Alison, or the words used in tho first instance bv Mr. Arbuckle. "This did not quite satisfy Mr. Arbuckle, but Mr. Roberts,, his colleaguo, camo to the rescue, and did his part, a ye' 7 considerable part, in smoothing things down to enable tho discussion to continue. Scope of the Commission. Mr. Alison, continuing, said he accepted Mr. Arbuckle's assurance that he had not made the statement in question. He said that he asked the federation to agree that their demands should be submitted for investigation along with all other mutters pertaining to the industry. U" asked also that, the federation sho-iid agree to postpone the unacceptable t'cmands until the Eoyal Commission should have reported, and that if an agreement should bo entered into at the conference the clauses should be definitely and finally withdrawn until the expiration of any agreement that might be made. If the federation declined to withdraw them, then the responsibility for anything that might happen would be on the federation and not on the mine owners. If the representatives of the federation had not power to withdraw them, why wsre they there at all ? He suggested that the proper course for them to follow would be to go back to their unions and ascertain whether the unions would authorise them to withdraw the demands, and then there might be another conference after that decision had been made. Sir George Clifford made a suggestion that tho term "Royal Commission should not be insisted on in the miners proposals. He suggested that the word Mionld bo "investigation.' His reason was that the time taken by a formal inquiry such as that made by a Roval Urnmission would be considerable, but that an investigation of a less formal character might be made in much less time. Bv this inquiry disparities in figures from both sides could be corrected, and ihen an agreement might he reached which would stop the calamity wilncli seemed to be impending over tho Dominion The investigation would be one in which both sides wou'd be represented, and in which both sides would liave confidence. ' Federation in Reply.

Air. Roberts, while thanking Sir George Clifford ;for his offered advice, said that the. miners could not accept an inquiry other than that of a Royal Commission, lie said that he had been disappointed with the turn of affairs at the conference. T.he question for coisideration was greater than the interests of the coal miners, greater than the interests of the uoal mine owners. It was a national question, greater than all considerations of profits and wages. As to Mr. Alison's objection to the agreement being referred back to the men for ratification, for ibis part ho would alway-i refuse to make agreements binding the men on the job witmmt their express approval of the terms of the agreement. As to the scope of the Commission, ho thought it was understood that it would bo wido enough to deal with the miners as well as with the mines, Conditions in the mining industry at present were sucli that men wore leaving the mines, ami until men could be attracted (o the mines there could bo no increase in output. The obvious fact was mat as workers were leaving tho industry, wages aifd working conditions could not be very satisfactory The miners' representatives had receded somewhat from their origina. position, and it seemed that if they receded another yard the owners would attempt to capture another trench. Voices: No. Mr. Roberts snjd that the miners had given way on this point knowing that, there was a shortage of coal, and not desiring to inllict suffering on (lie people of Now Zealand. For this reason they had been willing to let the six main demands stand over for the time being. Mr. Weston: That is not withdrawing them. Mr. Roberts said that it was certainly not the withdrawal of tho demands, but it gave opportunity i'o;- discussing the terms and possibly for coming to an agreemont which might settle the trouble. If the owners persisted in refusing to ! discuss terms for an agreement it would be merely courting a- coal crisis. The miners wanted better conditions nnd heller pay. If the only'reply of I he owners was I hat just given, I hen he wus afraid the conference was lit an end. lie had himself asked dm miners' mm<sonlalives to do certain things. They had agreed with some reluctance lo do so. lie did not propose to ask I hem to do any more. Mr. Alison had suggested that; the mailer be referred back lo the unions. That could bo done, lint lie was afraid that Urn unions would not give the same temperate answer which he was trying at that moment to give. Ho did not wish this j he was simply afraid of it, and ho drU not uso it as a threat. A Way' Out, Mr, T, S, Weston made a proposal to

the conference, on which he said he had not consulted any of his colleagues, that a <;oinmittee of three members on either side should be set up to discuss the possibility of going on with consideration ol the demands" other than tuose «Ulidrawn lor tne time being. The ci.umittee would lind uut if possible wnat was tne exact mi-uning of the term "for tiio uuie Ueing" "in mis connection. Sir. Weston saw unit hu maUe tne propositi because it seemed to him that uie eon terence had come to an impasse, and that a rupture was threatened, Before lie gut into a light he liked to be sure that all had been done to avoid «, and he mads this proposal for this reason. At the same time, ho made it cleav that he could not consider the acceptance of those demands of the miners to which exception had been taken by the coal owners. He spoko also of the unrest of present times, suggesting that it should bo the aim of all to produce as much as possible, and tnat it all would get together with this end in view, New Zealand would soon recover from tho effects of the war. First of all tho need of the country was for industrial peace, and industrial certainty. Mr. W. A. I'lavell supported Mr. Weston's proposal. He said that the opposing representatives had been discussing this business for some days without getting much nearer a settlement, and ho feared that if something such as Mr. Weston had suggested were not done there was danger that the parties might not get together. Mr. O'Kourke asked for an adjournment for ten minutes to consider the proposal, and the adjournment- wns taken. On resimiiiij, Mr. Roberts said that the miners' representatives had agreed to the proposal, and that the members to reprjsout them on the committee would be Messrs. Arbucklo, O'Rourke, and himself. Mr. Weston and other speakers spoke of the appointment of a larger committee later to discuss the merits of tho demands, saying that the function of the small committee would be simply to determine whether a 'basis could be arranged for the carrying of the discussion of the demands this one step further. It was pointed out by Mr. o'Eou.rke and Mr. Roberts that it would be a simpler courso for the present to allow the small committee to sit and report to the conference, leaving it to conference to decide as to what should be done afterwards. Mr. Bishop asked to be allowed be an extra member of the committee in his capacity a? representing the Government and the State coal mines. This was agreed to. Tributes to the Chairman.

Sir Gcorgo Clifford said thafrlie would' not be ablo to act as chairman for the remainder of the conference as he had to return to Christchurch, but he would nominate Mr. W. Reeso to be his deputy in tlio chair. This proposal" was accepted by both parties. Mr. Alison moved a vote of thanks to Sir George Clifford for his services to the conference as chairman, and paid a tribute to his impartiality and tact in a position that must have beei at times difficult. Mr. Arbuckle seconded tho motion, saying with a broad smile that lie believed lio was the member who had given the chairman most trouble. At the same time, he added, ho was prepared to. say that the chairman had been impartial, and ho had given complete satisfaction to the miners' representatives. He was sorry that Sir Georgo Clifford could not remain until tho end of th econfrence. Mr. Arbuckle's seconding of the motion and his frank avowal of tho chairman's impartiality was received with applause all round tho room, Mr. Roberts also expressed the appreciation of the miners' representatives of the chairman's impartiality and courtesy. Tho motion was agreed to. In his reply Sir George Clifford said that ho had endeavoured to act as if ho had no personal interest in the conference, and tho fact that ho had received this acknowledgment from both sides was. to him a source of pride. ". « x Tho conference adjdurnsd until today. In point of f it may never meet again for such discussions as" those which liave continued for the five days of its sittings. The small committee will report to-day, and then it is probable that the proposal for reference of the details of the demands to be discussed to a larger committee'of both sides will be adopted.