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THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 11.30 a.m. THE ESTIMATES RAPID PROGRESS UNCOMFORTABLE QUARTERS At 11.32 a.m. the House weut into Committee on the Estimates. The Financial Debate lapsed completely. Tho first discussion was on t'ho acoustic properties and others defects of the now chamber. Sonic members furthest from tho Speaker's Chair expressed extreme dissatisfaction, and the complaints were bo very, insistent that Sir Joseph Ward suggested as a means of settlement a general election! Mr- Forbes declared that structural alterations would have to be made, even if the cost should bo considerable.

Sir William Eraser,; after some further discussion, said. he had told members when promising to get them into tho new chamber this year that there would lie .certain inconveniences. The arrangements were temporary. No architect had ever succeeded in producing a chamber of good acoastic properties by any ingenuity of his own. A hall of good acoustic properties was a fluke. It happened always that adjustments had to bo made later. Ho had arranged for curtains to bo hung in the chamber, but the influenza epidemic and morning sittings of tho House had delayed the work. He intended to have wires put across the chamber to correct the echo.

Dr. A. .K.Newman (Wellington East) thought it "lamentable" that the raearls of wisdom lot fall by members should be lost completely. An Amendment. . Mr. G. J. Anderson (Mataura) a reduction of the Legislative vote as an indication that n committee of members should have full power to ninko suitable arrangements in the new chamber. ' Sir Joseph Ward asked members to have more patience. They had come into the new chamber in .a hurry before the building' generally was complete. He assured the House' that the committee of members would bo.able to assist in putting matters right during the recess. ■\ member: Without power? Sir Joseph Ward: You have .advisory power. You can't have two suns shining at the same time. A member: What about the two Ministors in London? (Laughter.) Mr. .Or. V. Pearce (l'nten) protested against "prohibitory charges" _ being imposed on members' visitors in the meal rooms. Mr. .C. E. Stathnm (Dunedin Central) said the history of the new building was a history of "Departmental obstinacy and perversity." The House should insist now on an assurance that irresponsible committee of members would have adequate powers. Mr. W. Nosworlhy (Ashbnrton) said tlic seats promised ti) lie given (o members -were' "about fit for a second-class hotel," and the planning of the building was about «s bad as it could be.

The discussion was continued for over an hour, the speakers demanding " m,: the Government, should promise to give authority to the members' committee. Some heated feeling was displayed in vim debate. ' ■ , The chairman said that members must; avoid repetition of well-worn complaints. The Prime Minister, when the House resumed at 2.H0 p.m.. pointed out that it would be unconstitutional for any committee of members to have power to order changes involving the expenditure of money. He considered that the Minister of Public Works had made a very fair proposal to members, and he suggested that it ought to be accepted. He urged the member for Mataura to withdraw his amendment, and let the House get on with business. After tho Minister of Public Works had agreed to the addition of two other members to the committee, Mr. Andersoi) withdrew his amendment, and progress was made at once. Land and Income Tax. Country members found fault with the methods of assessment of land and income lax. It was said that while one farmer paid considerable sums in taxation others with even bigger incomes paid nothing. Sometimes a farmer escaped by "going to a lawyer." The suggestion mado was that the. Department was losiug money by not having officers employed to supervise the filling in.of returns by farmers. Honest' men paid taxes, while dishonest men, so it was alleged, escaped by not filling in their returns correctly. The Minister of Finance would not have it that; the Taxing Department was reims?. Some men were dishonest, but ,1-hn Taxing Department would discover them, and they would not only have to pay their due.--, but also would be subject to penalties. Pensions. Dr. Thacker (Chrisv.chu.rcli , EasO, speaking on the vote for pensions, said that old-age, pensioners who owned holnes ought to bo ahle to sell the homes and buy homes in other districts, near relatives and friends, without being penalised. At present: the money derived from Ihe sain of-ji home would be reckoned as revenue and so would cancel or reduce the pension. Mr. R. A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) said the rale of the widow's pension would require to be 'nerensed in view of the dire uu'eets of the influenza epidemic. Train Services. Mr. W. 11. Yield (Otaki) asked when Sunday trains and race I rains wore going to I.D restored. He had always regarded the policy of permitting race meetings and refusing to take revonne from them as exceedingly foolish. The Minister of liailways (Hon. W. 11. llerries) said ho was always accessible as Minister to the officers of the railway workers' organisations, lln liad frequent meetings with these ollicers. Improvements in salaries and wages had to be made by legislation, and .Ihe Government had considered it best during the war period to meet tlio immediate difficulty by paying war bonuses. Tho bonuses would come to r.n end when the war closed, but during the recess lie would prepare now schedules of sal' j.iries and wages for tin? consideration of the House. The fares and freights would also have to bo reconsidered when peace was declared. He would re.storo railway facilities as soon as possible. 11. hail been impossible (luring the war to avoid causing inconvenience to Ihe public. Tho Department had released

7500 men for military service and was at present about 1000 men short of its full stall , . The sliurluge of coal hud been smother factor. As soon as possible lie would restore (lie ordinary facilities, including race, trains. He would try to do something at Christmas time, the facilities being given where men were available. Mr, Field: Shall wo have the Sunday trains? Mr. Hemes: That is another question. Our men have a strong objection to Sunday trains. When the vote for the High Commissioner's Office (.£23,'J55) was under consideration, Dr. Thacker asked if it would not be possible to increase the salaries of the officials and clerks in the o nee, us the i-tist of living was most likely much higher in London than in New Ava'"i'lio Minister of Internal Affairs (Ilie Hon. G. AV. Russell) replied that the matter had already received the consideration of the Government, and it would bo dealt with in the Supplementary Lstimales. Defence Matters. The Hon. A. 'J , . Ngata, speaking (in tho Defence vote, expressed warm appreciation of tho wprk done by tho Minister of Defence in connection with the Native reinforcements. The Minister during the last four years had been very often abused; for some of that: abuse tho Department which he controlled was to blame. Hut on the wholo the Defence Department, during nmost trying period, had been administered as well as anybody could have administered. Mistakes woro inevitable in times of great stress. Wasto could not be avoided when a (?reat military organisation wns Ijeing brought into'existence at very short notice. But much of the blame that had been heaped upon tlie 51 mister of Defence had been due to misunderstanding. The Minister of Defence had done a great work. Mr. Ngata added that in connection with the Maori reinforcements he had been brought into close contact with the Minister of Defence, and he did not believe a better man could have run the Defence Department.

Mr. J. A. Young (Waiato) said tonin painful incidents had come under his notice in connection with the dischargo of soldiers in England. He mentioned the case of on officer who had got his discharge in England, and had left his wife and children without adequate means in New Zealand. The Government ought to make special efforts to bring that man back lo the Dominion. Prompt Release from Camps. Mr. G. Forbes urged the Minister to get the men out of camps as quickly as possible, and suggested also that tho Department should not press for payment for little items of equipment. Mr. Ell: Yes, what about those toothbrushes ? Mr. Forbes said that he was sure the Houso wo«ld support the Minister if he incurred expense by this little generosity to the men. It.was first of nil important that tho men should be released as quickly as possible, and important also that the men should not leave camp with a feeling of irritation. A Case of Injustice,, Mr. W A. Veitch asked whether a time had been fixed when the return of tho men from Britain and France might be commenced. The men were needed very, badljr in New Zealand, and it would be wise for the. New Zealand Government to represent that tho New/ Zealanders should be returned from the front nt once. Mr. Veitch mentioned also the case qf H. H. Thomson, imprisoned for accusing one Francis Rudolph Hotop, a medical officer in the cnmp, of drunkenness. Something must bo wrong with a military organisation which demanded that injustice should be done to maintain discipline. He hoped tho Minister would see his way to recompense this man Thomson for the injustice" which undoubtedly had been done him.

Mr. Ell spoke of the temporary building being erected in Whitmore Street. He declared that the money was being wasted. The building was being put there to accommodate a largo staff, but a large staff would not bo required for long after the war. But in conclusion he e paid a tribute to the Minister tit Defence. No Minister, ho said, had worked harder as a Cabinet Minister than Sir James Allen in carrying the great responsibility of Bis office. It was to be hoped that the Government would yet allow the Minister to visit tho battlefields of Europe, where our men had fought. Mr. R. A. Wright pressed the Minister to be,. generous to returned men, and to see that men in camp be v released as quickly as possible. The state of things in Featherston Camp was unsatisfactory. Tlie troops had "been "on the .verge of revolution" for a long time, past because of the mismanagement of the camp. Men could not get leave from the camp. The Minister had been told, probably by some officer, that 75 per cent, of the men got leave, but this was not true. . Regardiug the Thomson case, ho said it was curious that this man, 'sentenced lo two years' imprisonment by court-martial, did not serve the full term. Mr. WWyht asked the Minister whether it would not be possible to reduce the detachments at the forts now that the war was over,

The Hon. D.' Buddo also mentioned the record of the Minister. He snid that when tho history of New Zealand's war effort; was written there would be "a fairly good place" in the. history for the Minister of Defence. The Administration of the .Department had not been free from fault, but the Minister 'had stood steadfastly for the main policy of New 'Zealand, which had enabled this country to do its part in the war. Minister in Reply. The Minister of Defence said that tho camps were very nearly empty now; nnd except for the necessary staff which would be required to clean up there would be no men there at the beginning of next week. He snid that tooth-brushes were not charged for to the men, nor were housewifes. Demobilisation, With regard to demobilisation, the shipping arrangements probably would bring men back at the rate of 10,000 iv month. That was as rapidly as they' could be assimilated into civilian employment. 1 It would not be possible to bring any of tho men away from tho New Zealand Division until peace had been concludedThe Hotop Case. Willi regard to the case of H. H. Thomson, he did not wish to go fully into the matter nt the present time. The man liad been tried by court-martial null the decision had been confirmed by officers who had read the proceedings. The charge against ThoniKiu, was that he had accused an officer oflieing drunk" on parade It was now established that this officer had been nddieted either to liquor or to drugs. At tho lime the officer had been very carefully watched, and the Minister himself hnjl made, personal inquiries. Tho caso was under consideration at (ho present time. Mr. (4. Witty (Riccarton): Will you compensate him? Sir James Aljeii: I nin having the mattor examined into. It, was necessary, ndded tho Minister, to amalgamate tho Pay Branch and tho Records Branch, and for that reason a temporary building was b'eiiVT erected in Wollington. Tho cost probably would bo eavod in four or five years' time. Ho had heard the greatly exaggerated rumours nlxint trouble at Featherston Camp. Tho difficulties that had arisen there wero not serious. He would be glad to release all men at, the forts as soon as possible, but definite instructions had been given that (tin foils were to lio manned for the present. Allegations of Waste, Mr. J. A. Young asked the Minister what, ho proposed to do with the valuable denial equipment at Featlioi'ston and Trcntham Camps. Mr. J. l'ayno snid that he had heard that valuable woollen underwear returned bv tho mon was being cut up and burnt If this wero so, groat wasto was going on, and it would bo wiser to allow tho men (o buy their kit at; a reasonable price. Sir James Allen said that it was hoped I bat tho dental equipment would be used for th(> State afterwards. He had no knowlejlgo of underwear or other clothing being burnt, nnd bo did not think ! any would bo burnt unless it were in such condition that it would bo proper

to burn it. Tho men could now tow their kits at very small prioes. Tho Defence. Estimates passed aftff less than an hour's discussion, and th» Minister was applauded when he left his seat. At the time of going to press tho House was discussing Education, tho last class of the Estimates. (Left Sitting.).

Permanent link to this item
Hononga pūmau ki tēnei tūemi

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DOM19181130.2.74

Bibliographic details
Ngā taipitopito pukapuka

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 56, 30 November 1918, Page 8

Word count
Tapeke kupu
2,394

THE HOUSE Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 56, 30 November 1918, Page 8

THE HOUSE Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 56, 30 November 1918, Page 8

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