THE GRIERSON INQUIRY

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2732, 29 March 1916, Page 6

THE GRIERSON INQUIRY

QUESTION OF LOYALTY

MORE ALLEGED PRO-GERMAN UTTERANCES .

GRIERSON TELLS HIS STORY

, The inquiry into the charges of alleged disloyalty, German origin, and pro-Ger-man'sentiments against Lieutenant A. H. Grierson was continued yesterday by Mr, A. D. Thomson.

,:■ Mr. J. W. Salmond, K.C. (Solicitor-Gen-eral) appeared for tho Crown, Mr. T. Ncave for Lieutenant Grierson, and 'Mr. T. M. Wilford for Madame Boeufve and Mr. J. Payne, M.P. ' Lieut. Grierson put in the completed exercise, the beginning of which/a series of German words on a piece of soiled paper, was alleged to be a code.

More About Conversations. ; '■ Leslie-ProbynDighton, manager of the Neuchatel Asphalt Company in New Zealand; who was called' by tie Court, said ho knew Lieutenant Grierson, having travelled-from England to New Zealand with him in Ithe Tainui at the end of 1913. ■■■ In- course of conversation on tho ship'and at Auckland. Grierson had expressed admiration for the Germans, borne of these remarks itere made by Grierson after the declaration of war. He had got into touch, through a friend of his, Mr. Paterson, of Napier, with the authorities, and Mr. Paterson received a letter from the Hon. Dr. M'Nab covering a reply from the Defence Minister. Ibis; was in September, 1915. On tho, ship 1 Grierson had frequently expressed sentiments of intense admiration for the Germans. Witness understood he had lately been to Germany, and that ho admired the Germans greatly. On one occasion ho expressed his great'admiration for their organisation, and said that if war ever did break out there would be only ono nation'in it, so far as ho could see, and this because of the organisation and education o£ the. Germans: Grierson had said the Germans were a magnificent race of people, and he was always, expressing admiration of them. Some people on the ship, took- exception, behind Grierson's back, ,io these remarks. • Witness felt that Griersonmust have had German blood on one side :or the other. Witness knew ■Grierson's :uncle .in Auckland well,' and knew therefore that the father's side of the family, was. British. Witness therefore supposed that he might be German on the mother's side: A certain coolness seemed to grow up between Mr. Grierson and some of. the passengers. This may have been because of his German sentiments, and on the other hand Grierson might not'have" chosen to take any; notice of those.people. • Alleged Sneers. Ho next saw Grierson after he had left the German Consulate in Wellington., This was .early in August, and he knew this because.. he ; went io the police about Grierson on August 14. The occasion on which. :he saw Grierson'whs -two or three days before ~'that, „ certainly more , than one day., He: went, to the police because of a conversation -he.had with Grierson. Grierson' said he'had been secretary to Hie German Consul at Wellington, and had left on the declaration' of.war, ana that thef police had. searched his effects for incriminating papers.- Grierson went on to remark:.-'"As though I should keep any papers if they were incriminating." Grierson had also said that he did not believe the stories of the German atrocities. He ridiculed the loyalty of New Zealanders ; said they were' "waving flags now and trying to -be very enthusiastic, but before the war they were not loyal to the English, used to say things against us, and an Englishman had. a very poor time out here.- He supposed it would be the same again after, the war." Grierson . had.said that it was all very well to'-say. the Germans were the cause of the. war, and.had brought it on, but he doubted whether it was brought on by .' the Germans or the Allies. Grierson admitted that he did not like the people out hero,- and did not get on very well with them.' Witness understood that Grierson used to upset his uncle by- his Socialistic'...and..German ideas. ' ■'.

-.> Question of Nationality.' To. Mr. Neave: After reading a letter from Griersqn's mother he had no longer any doubt as to Grierson's British origin on both! father's and mother's side. Grierson did not at any time say anything about "the' unprepared condition of our army;.->' In all that he had said there was nothing disloyal—before the war. He agreed, that.there was nothing disloyal in drawing, attention to preparations made by: a-possible enenry. He had often seen Grierson- since he had enlisted, and had spoken with-him, and did not consider, that he was associating with a German spy! His arguments about Grierson had been quashed, and the Minister was satisfied about him, and surely the Minister, ' of, Pefence,,ought to know .what he was' about! - He v accepted that as a reasonable man. He did not consider that a 'man's loyalty should be suspected because he:, had'. stayed in Germany, and because ho could speak the German language. He'would say definitely that he did not go to. the police (on August U) until at least 'two.days- after he saw Grierson in" Auckland, Ho was prepared to say. that the interval was more than two days, but he could not fix it more definitely than this. He thought the conversation of Grierson when ho Saw him in Auckland was such that he ought to report it, but he had no animosity whatsoever against Mr. Grierson. ■ . Praise of the Germans. He had heard hundreds of people since then make statements in praise of German organisation. Grierson took'a.great interest in matters of this kind, being a serious-minded and studious young man.' For this' ;reason ■ .Grierson • knew a great deal more about what the Germans were doing than the • average person our here.

3fr. N«ave: Hae not the fact that Mr. Grierson , ihaa -enlisted somewhat- dissipated yourJ'fpnner suspicions against Mr. Grierson?-"," '

Witness :llt-has- left, a nasty taste in "my mouth".,'lt-ivai?..for that-reason that I went .'.to; the police. .Witness said, he did not think any person who had expressed .German sentiments should go to the front with New Zealand troops. But all his> statements were made within a week" of "the outbreak of war, before all the authentic facts were known. Ho did not Agree ..exactly that Grierson had merely suspended judgment on the events occurring. - Grierson's attitude amounted to something more'than this. He had declared that ho did not believe the Germans would commit the atrocities.

Mr.JNeave: What do you think he believes, now?.

...Witnessill. haven't the' faintest idea, sir. . ■:'[ ' ';

To Mr.;:Salmond: When he informed the police' about Grierson he supposed rhat Grierson was of German descent. Ho did not suspect this now. and he did not think Grierson was a German spy. AH he said now was that a man., even if a pure Englishman, who csnressed such Gnrman sentiments as G'rietison had sooken should not fro forward with our forces. Wlint Gri°TSon had eaid did not ariounfc'TO disloya'ty. .

Mr. Salmon'': Would it not. have been a very eood thin? for the British naHon if a preat many more neon'" had had the'' same sentiments as be did ? -

WHness «aid that, -perhaps this was so, for lord floh"rts bad done his b°*t to awaken the. British people to a know-lj.'-oiof „ivhn.t wp= n-ninsr on.

■Mr.',Salmond: Don't you Unr-V a. nwm omjht'to be c«Dim n ml n d for the attention' of the/English to the wave state- of-"--iinnrenaredncss in comparison the Germans?

Witness said that fife rlirl iwf_ describe Grierson's attitude, which wis one of whole-souled admiration of th" Germans. He was also BD«mc'nns of JfeiATsbn when he went into the German

Consulate here. He was satisfied now that Grierson was an Englishman, the son of loyal British parents. Witness based his objection to Grierson going in the forces on all that had been said by Grierson. He was offended because a week after the outbreak of war Grierson sneered at the- patriotism .of New Zeaianders or other British subjects. He witness) believed that B9J per cent, of ;he. reports of German atrocities wero true. He believed, for instance, that scores of Belgian babies' hands bad been cut off.

To Mr. Wilford: He considered that Grierson's sentiments were pro-German, and that Grierson'6 references to New Zealand loyalty were contemptuous and snoering. ' • To Mr. Thomson: It was true that other British people, admitted that the organisation of the. Germans was splendid, but in those cases this was admitted grudgingly, perhaps being based on fear, but he considered that Grierson's sentiments were rather different. He "worked himself into a glow" in bis enthusiastic admiration of the Germans. , The Documents Again. Lieutenant Grierson continued his evidence in chiof. With regard to the postcards taken by the police, these had been sent to him from Hanover by a friend there, formerly a fellow-employee in Coates's mill. at Paisley. He received them while he was in New Zealand, 'but he could not remember exactly on what date. Certainly it was.before the war. These postcards depicted Hanoverian regiments in their accoutrements of, roughly speaking, a hundred years, ago. HeT>elioved, in fact, that some of these regiments.had fought for the British in America.- He had never sent any of the cards through, the post, but had kept them in. their original package •until the police took tbem away. On the package wab a form of application: for'membership of the German Defence Society. He had never signed the application, 'and indeed had never noticed what' the print was on the outside of the'packet until the ; translator'had drawn bis attentior, to it at the Commission. Certain othei adhesive picture stamps' he had obtained in Focke's office. He believed thes were stamps that -were sold for' the benefit of the German Eed Cross and similai objects. Regarding the scraps of papei on which were grammatical exercises, he could not say how many pieces of paper he had used, because,'it was his habit, in the study of languages, to write down new words and phrases in order to memorise them. He followed this method in the study not only of German, but of Frenclf, Kussian, ; and ■ Italian.'' King or Emperor? He had'stayed at.Miss Murphy's houso for 14 weeks, all the time ho had been at. Focke's office. Miss . in her evidence, had referred to an incident in which lie had spoken of the King's birthday. His - recollection was ~ ffaiit he had expressed surprise about.'.the .holiday on the following day, tho Kind's birthday, and he. was, -in fact, surprised becaueo that flay was not observed -as a public holiday'.in |Eugland. Miss; Murphy "put out a feeler," suggesting that' ho was' a; subject of the iKaiser., He believed that he had repudiated this with some emphasis, and perhaps ho had got : rather red in the face. Perhaps he had said "We' have an Emperor." but he certain-; ly nover meant to say that he was a snV ject of the Kaiser. ' He meant that his Emperor was the King of England, who was. as a fact. Emperor of 'India. It would be ridiculous for him, if he wished to infer that he was a German subject, to say that he had hot a Kaiser, and then to sav in the next breath "We have an Emperor," "Emperor", being merely,the English equivalent of "Kaiser." ''. '"'.:-■ . - ■ .'' ' On the day following the proclamation tn Wellington of the state of war, the search of Focke's office took place, and he!.lost his job'. He pet out at once to "o ■ home tn the boanliughouse, and on his way oalled in and spoke to Mr. Bal r r.»av<'s. one of Mr. Ferries's secretaries. Mr. Balneavig was a fellow-boarder and a friend of his, and witness told him that he' proposed to offer his services as an interpreter to .the Defence authorities. Mr. Balnea vis found nut for him how to make amplication, and he got into touch with Colonel Gibbon, who told him that for vast" as interrvreters only cnmmi'r sioned officers could be accepted. Ho could : not sw°ar to his conversation with Color»l Gibbon, but his tpcollwtion was that Colonel Gibbon had said that if he were appointed, questions mi?ht be aslrod because of his havi"? been in the German Consul's office. .He left for Auckland at mid<-da-v of August 8. He could not ba certan of these dates. The Unpaid Board. Ho left Miss Murphy on fairly friendly terms. Mr. Neave: How came you to leave yp'ir r/>x there? Mr.-flTier«>n: The position was this: I paid Miss my b"ard everv four nr five week'. 'When T had to sivldenlv f nce tht. prnnos'+inn of leaving, I owed her about £9. I h-nd then about, .£7 in r"sh on me. -I naid her M on account. Th°re was a matter of pay'nff in lieu of notice. In her evidence T believe she made 9 statement that she. was accustomefl to hove her boarders, go at p. •V*iute\s nntVp. I -never heard of this before.' I Mt my box laTffelv as a matNr" of gond-wi". and ' furthermore gave her the key. I Raid that as soon as T ~n* up to AucV 1-, -"V T would emnmnni--n.t<» i-ith h»r. Wipn T up to ArirKla.nrl I wTot" to her n ft»r a f»w day). <avpv T "tint"'' "ivbox s"ii i"<lrinir exaotlv what T owed her. T think I remember p°king her fnr a stnt«meif like that. because my uncle n *ilivwl me hW T stood. T got iw answer to my communication. . and I asaumed that Mi." Mnrnhv did not repel'vp the letter. I did not see war she sliouM not answer mo. T «-as lmsilv ci)r"i<red in trying to eet something to do. desiring not to be too much denendent. nn mv father. . . . T wrote a.<rain to Mis o Murnh'y in November, statin* that T should probably bo roin/r hack to England in February, and that I should be peeing her tVn. A fain I got no answer. Witness continued that he had even fixed, un his berth in the Remuora tn sail on February: 13. 1915, but the day b»for» he was due tn leavp Auckland for Wellington he had a cablegram from his people a<: Southampton, felling him not to go Home. When he found thit. he was not going Home he wrote to Miss Murphv. nsltina- again for a statement. This would probably be about the time he enlisM. Aeain ho had no reply to his letter. He enlisted in June, came into camp in Auenst, and he was a lieutenant in November. Prior to en'istiiif he was on the strength of tho 6th Hauraki Regiment, and Ire had had a little infantry training in the cadet corps, and tho n.T.C. at Cheltenham. College. Miss Murphy had never replied to any of his letters. ,

People at the French Club, M!gs de Cleene had said she saiv him in Lambton Quov, Wellington, after, Christmas. 1!)14. In actual fact ho ■■was' on Mr. Wiring's farm at Paoroa from November, ISU. until August, 3915, with the execution of tvo periods, one of about five weeks in February, ivlien lie thought lie was ijoimr.Home, and one of a forfnijrliit when he was in Auckland attending' a Territorial camp. Tn all the time ho was never anywhere near Wellington. The first occasion on which he saw.Welter's name was when he snw a paragraph to the effect that a Gorman of this mime had. been spying on some Frenchmen

Ho had a faint recollection of having met Adamson at tho French Club. He believed lie had spoken once, perhaps oftcner, to Adamson. A man named Spen. 6or introduced them. He had no recollection whatever of tho conversation. Certainly ho had no recollection of having said anything about Germans or Germany. He believed he had attended about eight meetings of the French Club. His conversation iy.ith Adamson must have boon .before war was declared, because he did not think he had ever been to the French: Club after the outbrenk of war. .Spenser took part in the conversation, and after tire conversation he remained good friends with Spenser, who had since cone to the war. Neither Spenser nor he had ever monbioned Adamson's name [ flgain.

At the Boardinghouse. Whilo ho was •in tbo boardinghouse there were about eight young men staying there. He probably began to discuss Germany a few hours after lie went to the boardinghouse, because ho never lost an opportunity of emphasising German preparedness. The, other men appeared to get bored at his drumming into them that we would have to wake up, in season and out of season. He had first-hand knowledge, and he know how unscrupulous the Germans were. He had seen German armies, . German, manoeuvres, knew something of the organisation and the executive work of the German staff. Such debates as occurred on theso subjects at the boardinghouse were often heated. The general idea of the other boarders seemed to be that the mero fact of being Britishers would carry us through if we should fight Germany. He had said often that the British were 'the finest fighting men in tho world, but also that he knew only too well the naval and military organisation of Germany. They possibly assumed that ho did not know what he was talking about, and they frequently got very indignant on the subject. He had once seen a trial mobilisation and manoeuvres in Germany, when about 250,000 or 300,000 men were concentrated within a week. He was very much interested : in military operations, and he had often, though possibly not in the boardinghouse, referred to these manoeuvres. They had often discussed German methods of commerce and 60-called "peaceful penetration," and so far as he could recollect they agreed fairly well on these topics. The fact that he was studying German and other languages was well known, and he had insisted ■ on the importance of knowledge of languages in commerce. On the subject of British and German education some discussion had occasionally occurred. He had always held that German education was more thorough than, ours, and that we gave too much attention to sport in England. It was not common for any of them to lose their tempers in these, arguments. He denied that on any occasion Horton ever threatened seriously to knock him down. . There was a keen argument, the subject of which he could not'remember, at the conclusion of which Horton and he had some further talk, Horton telling him that he had better swallow his words. But Horton was too much of a gentleman to fight about such a matter, and they had no thought of fighting. He had seen and 6pofcen with Horton in camp on many occasions, and when Horton left, witness parted with him on the best of terms, shaking hands with him very warmly. To Mr. Thomson: He could not say ■when this argument with Horton took I place, whether before or after the war. Only Quotations. To Mr. Weave: He recollected having made many quotations from German 1 military writers in these boardinghouse discussions. He remembered especially stressing Bernhardi's doctrine that it was absolutely necessary for the Germans to 6trike terror.into : the inhabitants of any country they were invading. He had most certainly never expressed approval of'this doctrine. He did not believe that the men in the boardinghouse had over heard of Bernhardi, in which, respect they were not dissimilar from the majority of other Britons. He had known and read Bernhardi at least three years before tho war. After the war he remembered some celebration in the boardinghouse about a supposed naval victory. He arrived when the celebration was already some way advanced, and it was suggested that he should swear allegiance. This was announced by Mr. Nelson as an item of the programme. "The whole thing was a joke," he said, "and I enjoyed it as much as they did." No hostility was shown to hdm.'no hard looks or innuendoes, or anything of the sort. He.was present at the proceedings, for about half an hour, and then he left, one. reason being that he could not, owing to his state of health, take any amount of alcohol.

No Disloyalty. Lieutenant James Laidlaw Herbert, llthj i Reinforcements, said he had met Lieut. Grierson in camp. They had Been one another almost every day. He had l never heard Griersou express any disloyal sentiment or express any leaning - towards any nation but the British. .To Mr. Wilford: Ho knew nothing about the evidence given by other witnesses. If a man was thought to be a German in camp he would not last long. Witness had gathered that Grierson regarded the Germans as a nation to be admired for their organisation and military Mv., Grierson resumed his evidence. He «membered how he got the nickname, Ihe German," in the boardinghouse. It was because he worked in Ricke's office. All the boarders had nicknames, and ho took no offence.. He was not always called "The German." More often the men called him Grierson, using the name, "The German," or "The Old German," when they were joking in the house. He did not remember the occa- - eion after the outbreak of war when (as related by witness Eliind) 'he protested against being called a German, but he probably did so. Talks on the Ship. In his conversations on the ship he had always taken up the same attitude upon everybody the extreme preparedness of tho Germans and- our almost total unpreparedness. He sow. Dighton at Auckland as related, and talked with him for about fifteen minutes 011 the war. Ho had said to Dighton then that flag-waving, shouting hip-hip-hooray, and so on would not help us to w.in. We would have to get down to it. Wc were up against a tough proposition. And it took us about a year to do it. On the subject of the relations of New Zealand to England, lie had said to Dighton that English products did not seem to get much of a chance in New Zealand, and that' German goods flooded, the country. He did not sufgest that hostility was shown to individual Englishmen. Discussing the cause ofithn war with Dighton he. hau expressed) the opinion that Germ4Dy„fo,rced the w > but thnt it; was difficult to 'discover exactly what was tho casus belli. He did not even yet know I what was the casus belli. He had expressed some doubt about tho reports of Belgian atrocities, finding it hard to believe that any civilised nation would be-' have with such" brutally. His father was an extreme Imperialist and a very wide-awake man, and his father's ideas about German aims were tho same as his own. Ho considered himself pro-British but he was not afraid to face facts about the enemy and his strength. Mr. Grierson gave some account of a considerable number of his relatives, now serving with the British Army in '.France and also with the Now Zealand Army. To Mr. Salmond: If the German Consulate was in fact closed on August 10, then he could not have left Wellington for Auckland until August 11 or 12. \ Cross-examination Opens. To Mr. Wilford: He believed that ho was in Fockc's office at least five or six . dnys after the declaration of war between ■ England and Germany. He left the ' office on the day of the raid by the police, i To the best of his belief he left tho I office on that day. He was as positive about this as he could be about anything.

. Mr. Wilford: "What were you doing in the German Consul's office from the outbreak, of war until August 10? Lieut. ,G'rierson-._ Practically nothingtwiddling my thumbs.

' Mr. Wilford: At what salary? Witness: At .£2 10s. a week. He left Miss Murphy without paying her what he owed for board. Re had been receiving lieutenant's pay, 10s. a day, since November, but lie liai] not paid yet. Ho had, however, made three applications to her. for a statement.

"Exaggerated and Distorted."

point of view, no. Ho did not admit having made sneering referenco to tho loyalty of New Zealauders in bis conversation with Dighton in Auckland. Ho hod come but here to recruit his health, and ho had recovered his health, and ho had received nothing but kindness from New Zealandevs, with the exception of Madame Boeufvo and Mr. Payne. Concerning'the atrocities, all ho had said was that he found tho storie3 difficult to believe. At tho same time, he knew Bernhardi's doctrine that tho Germans should reduce to terror the people of a country invaded. Ho had never been in Germany except on two occasions—once for eight months and once for eight weeks. The Exhibits. i He could not tell tho Commission when he wrote all the little German, exercises produced in evidence. He was cross-examined about the alleged "code," the other scraps of writing, and the meanings of tho words so written. He received the Gorman postcards after his arrival in New Zealand, he said. He had never used any of them, and ho did not know how many of them there were. Mr. Wilford: Could not you have sent one of tho cards as an application to become a member of the German Defence Society? Witness: No, tho inscription on the cards is not an application. ■ The only application form was on the wrapper of the postcards. Mr. Wilford: Why have you in your possession a blank application form for membership of a German Defence Society? Witness: I have the blank form because, never having wished to join the society, I did not have occasion to fill it in and sign it. He had never, while in Germany, joined any league or any society of this sort, he continued. _On his second visit he was certainly not in Germany more than eight weeks. He took out a passport in Stuttgart because he was going for a, walking tour in the Black Forest, and he was advised to get the passport in order that he might have no difficulty about, getting bis letters in out-of-the-way places. At that time he had no thought of coming to New Zea""d. Ho had no thought of war, and ho saw no special preparation for war on the occasion of that visit. Ho admired the German organisation, their business methods and thoroughness before the war,, but he did not approve of everything the Germans did. He did not admire Germans individually as men, because he always had the idea that if they "could get one on to you" they would do it. He was never drilled in Germany, but hs. was interested in the soldiery, tho town in which he stayed being an important garrison town.

Concerning Miss Murphy's-evidence, he would' not admit that it was all true. She had exaggerated and distorted facta. Referrine to the conversation on the evo of. the King's birthday, he said that he had made use of the term "Emperor" as meaning the Kin? of England. -Miss' Murphy thought he was a German, and she put a wrong interpretation on what he said. He felt very indignant übout it at the time. He did not remember ever having in his possession a German postcard' with two German soldiers on 'it. holding up glasses, a representation of the Iron Cross above it. and below the inscription "Der Tag." He could not remember ever having snob a card in his possession, but he could not deny positively that he had ever had such a card' —he had at different times had so many foreign post-oarda. h "A Misunderstood Man." It was correctly stated that he met the witness Adamson at the French -Club, but he did not admit that he had ever told Adamson that his sympathies were with Germany. He could not think how Aclamson ever got this' impression. Mr. Wilford: I put it this way to yon

—you are a much misunderstood man. by Adamson, by Miss Murphy, by Nelson, by Thompson, and by Ehind—all got a, wrong idea of you?

Witness: Yes. Mr. Wilford: Is is not extraordinary? Witness: The most extrnordinajy thing I have ever heard of. He supposed that they took exception to his statements because they had not the first-hand knowledge 'of German organisation that he had.

■ Mr. Wilford pressed for a reason why :heso people misunderstood him.

Mr. Grierson: Simplv because they could not stomach the fact that we were unprepared and that Germany was making every preparation. If I said so they got into argument, and said it couldn't bo. But it is true.

To Mr. Thomson: They seemed to have assumed first of all that I was a German.

Mr. Thomson: Did you contradict that? Witness: When the question of my na-

tionality was spoken of I emphatically denied being' a German. Mr. Thomson: Was that after the war? Witness: That was at any time. Witness said that it was not correct that he ueed to wear a full moustache with ends turned up a la Kaiser. To Mr. Wilford: When he came to Wellington he worked for a German, .but a man who was he believed well respected in the community, and a man w.hom he believed to be a loyal citizen of Wellington.

Mr. Wilford: And when war broke out, if you were a loyal British subject who loved your country, why did you not shake the dust of that office off your feet? Witness: For financial reasons. I couldn't afford to do it at once. He went

on to say tbat he had discussed tho matter with a Frenchman also employed at Focke's office, and they had agreed that as soon as they could they would get out. In'actual fact he did not leave until he was sacked a day or two later. He had joined the Expeditionary Force ,as a private, with only such training as he had received at school and with, the Hauraki Eegiinent. He was first given tivo stripes, then three, and then one star.' He beoanie a lieutenant in three months, exactly as many others had done. A Bernhardl Teaching. In conversation with Ehind he had said that the Germans maintained that they must commit brutalities in carrying on a War. In this he was reciting merely the teachings of Bernhardt It was no part of has own opinion that "it was necessary for the Germans to oommit these atrocities to carry on the war successfully." He believed that he had mentioned Bernhardi at the time as the author of the doctrines. Probably E.bind knew so little of 'the subject that he was rather out of his depth when witness talked about it, and for this reason Ehind might have gathered a wrong impression. He was quite certain he had never said to Ehind or anybody else that his mother «;as half-Gorman. He had made statements to tho Defence Minister and Mr. Herdman about his case, but not to the Prime Minister. Lieutenant Grierson's evidence was again interrupted in order that the evidence of Captain Shand should be taken. As to Character. Captain James Arthur Shand, commanding A Company, 11th Eeinforcements, said he met Grierson nt Trentham in October, 1915. Ho had seen and talked witlu Grierson often, and he believed Grierson to bo thoroughly loyal. Grierson had shown that he was cognisant of the strength of tho German Armv, the methods of organisation, and the extent of their preparations, and he had always said that when it came to a scrap ■ Germany would be a difficult proposition'. He had never heard Grierson say anything at all disloyal or unfriendly to Britain. • To Mr. Wilford: Grierson agreed with witness in condemning the German methods of warring on women and neutrals. The Commission adjourned until 10 a.m. to-day.