UNIVERSITY REFORM.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1848, 6 September 1913, Page 3

UNIVERSITY REFORM.

MR. HOGBEN'S VIEWS. FEES AND FINANCE. What is expected to bo tho final sitting of tlio Education Committee appointed by Parliament for the purpose of receiving evidence was held at the Parliament Library yesterday, when Mr. Hogben, Inspector-General of Schools, and Professor Laby gavo evidence. Mr. G. 31. Thomson presided. The other mombers ivero Messrs. 11. M'Callum, T. K. Sidoy, C. E. Statham, A. S. Malcolm, D. H. Until rio, and H. Poland. Mr. Hogben replied to tho criticisms oh his report on tho University Colleges, especially those made by the Professors of Victoria College. Professor I'icken, in,evidence given on July 29, had said that tho Professorial Board of Victoria College "differs very largely from tho Inspector-General's report in its views of wnat should bo tho future policy of Now Zealand in the matter of University education." Mr Hogben pointed out that he had not teen directed to report upon reforms that might bo made. He was only to report upon the University's immediate needs. He believed that the constitution, policy, and organisation of tho Uni/ersity needed considerable reform, and tho battle he had fought for reform on tho Senato ought fo have prevented tho Victoria College Professors from imagining that he held such views as they had attributed to him. Another misconception w?.s contained in tho words used by Professor Laby in his evidence on August 15: "The report appears to accept the principle that it is more important to increase the number of subjects taught than to increase the standard of the work." .Witness contended there was nothing in his report to give colour to such a statement. Wellington and Otago Compared. Professor Laby had made several comparisons .of tha proportion of population in the several university college districts, and the proportion of the proposed grants assigned to the university colleges, but tho real constituencies consisted of the population from which the students actually came. If t'liey took as a measure the number of students in the faculties of Arts and Scienco at the date (June, 1912) to which the riport referred, they found that Otngo had 247 students and Victoria College 238, but if they took the populations (191,000 and 379,000 respectively), Victoria Cojlego ought to have twice as many students as Otago. All tho comparisons of population, endowments, grants, and expenditure based upon the assumption that the nominal constituencies jvcro the actual constituencies were misleading and-valueless It was assumed by soveral witnesses that his report suggested the payment of additional lecturers and demonstrators 'required for an additional number of students by fees, but that was not tho natural meaning of the words he used. Professor Pickc-ii had said: "It seems that the University is to bo wider tho head of tho primary schools," meaning himself (witness), and Professor. Adamson had said, "The Education Department would control the University," whereas neither was correct.. Becauso Auckland was; supposed to specialise in commerce and Victoria College in law, it had been argued that the University work done by the ordinary lawyer or accountant should not be provided for. at more than one college. The suggestion ■ that tho instruction would bo in the nature of cramming was an unworthy ono. r The Question of Fees. Coming to the vexed question of fees, _ witness gavo the following table, showing that the numbor of holders of scholarships and bursaries was by no means inconsiderable: — * & a ci . ,0 ■ I I I i Pc 3 ' -H T • _ . . < > o o Junior University Scholarships 9 8 8 13 Senior National Scholarships 6 12 14 ■ 24 Taranaki Scholarships ' — 2 — 2 Senior University Scholarships 3 4 18 Bursaries under University bursary regulations 31 42 27 82 Home Science bursaries — — — 13 Sir George Grey Scholarships 1 1 1 1 Other exhibitions, etc. 2 2 12 '8 Training' College studentships 108 108 111 119 Totals 160 174 169 270 If the Arts and Scienco students at Victoria College were equal in number to those at Otago, • tho fees last year would have been £3469 on the Otago scale, and adding the fees of all the other students would make more than the total of £4455 considered to be so extravagant an estimate. If the number of students were in proportion to tho population' the total fees would ho £8000 or £9000, and finance would ceaso to bo a problem for tho Victoria College Council. Again, taking the number of. matriculated students at Victoria College this year (312), and assuming that the fees were as at Auckland, £12 10s. each, the total amount would bo £39(50, and adding £585 payable by the matriculated students and .£3OO tuition fees, they would have • a total of £4785, or £340 more than his estimate. Ho suggested that Victoria College and Auckland should bo secured against loss by guaranteeing to them for a certain time a minimum income from fees, endowments, and grants taken together. A basal' mistake in the criticisms on libraries and laboratories was the confounding together of annual expenditure and capital expenditure. Position of Victoria College. He found it difficult to follow Professor Laby in his,financial statements. He said in one place tho additional revenue , proposed to be given to Victoria College was £1000, in another £2000, and m a third £3300, and because Parliament voted an extra £1000 after his report was printed, the Professor put down his (witness's) proposed increase by £1000. Witness then revised and restated tho proposals in regard to Victoria College as follows, showing its actual position and its position under the proposals: —Proposed expenditure: Salaries of staff, £11,200; libraries, '£200: laboratories, £750; administration,'£l7so; total, £14,000. Actual expenditure (1911); £10,592. Proposed revenue: Giants from consolidated fund, £7000; national endowments, £2500; fees, £4000; Taranaki reserves, £500; voluntary contributions and subsidy, £300: miscellaneous, £150; total, £14,450. Actual rovenuo (1910-11): £9700, showing an increaso in incomo of £4750. , L Professor Laby had suggested that the Education Department was opposed to giving subsidies on voluntary butions mado to promote research, but that was far from the truth, and in his opinion subsidies should bo paid on voluntary contributions mado to a college in the same way as when made to a secondary school. Enough money for the immediate minimum needs should be given, and let tho finance be readjusted, if necessary, when a reorganisation of the University and its colleges took nlaco. Gross-Examination. Mr. Malcolm:_ With, regard to research scholarships, has the Education Department or tlio Sonatn over, ered the question of asking students to

investigate particular matters, for instance, the flax question? Witness repliwl that a long and valuablo investigation had been made into the flax question, and after a talk with an expert of tho Agricultural Department a report was published. Mr. Malcolm hoped tho governors would kep in mind tho necessity of research into particular subjects. Mr. M'G'allum: The people of Auckland and Wellington think you have favoured Otago. You have not gone into the larger question of the efficiency of tho staff. Witness: No, I kept carefully off that- 1 could not discuss that. Ma) Sidey: You practically adhere to the report which you made '< Witness: I have made a slight concession on tho foes; I havo taken £455 off my estimate of tho students' fees at Victoria College. Mr. Sidey: With that modification, you don't propose to make any alteration in your report?—"l have mado three other alterations, but the amount to bo paid to each college remains practically as it was." Mr. Sidey: You expressed agreement with the Reform Association in some" of tho requosts they are making with regard to constitution?—"l purposely tried to keep off that matter, but if tho general question of reform comes up, I am fully prepared to answer any question." Royal Commission Suggested. Mr. Sidey: Supposing this Committee recommends to the Government that a Royal Commission should be set up, would you still consider that no effect should bo given to. your report until the lioyal Commission's recommendations' are received?—:"l think at least some of them should. You are wasting money when you are inefficient, and you ovght to give sufficient money to mako for efficiency. I don't think a Royal Commission is likely to cut off what is given as a minimum." Mr. Sidey: Your scheme is based on tho minimum requirements, so if tho whole money recommended by you were given, you could not conceivo of a Royal Commission interfering with the grants?—"No, I think they would increase them." Mr. Sidey: You think the whole of your report could bo given effect to in the meantime?—"l think it would be safo to do so." In answer to further questions by Mr. Sidey, witness said that 011 tho question of law 110 had not included anything for tho teaching of conveyanc- , ing at- V ictoria Colicge. ■ Ho should like to reorganise the teaching of law in New Zealand on tho American basis, which would not be difficult, though it would mean a bigger staff. He would bo careful about establishing a school of law for the training and practical work of legal students. It was intended that Wellington College should specialise in law, and there was a sufficient margin to allow of a larger grant for that purpose. Professor Laby's' Evidence. Professor T. H. Laby then made a further statement on behalf of tho University Reform Association, which ho said wa-s based upon tho assumption that the Education Committee accepted tho report of the previous Education Conimitteo which was adopted by tho House of Representatives as follows:—"(1) That a case lias been made out ;for reform in the constitution of the Now Zealand University, more particularly in the direction of tho utilisation in a larger measuro than at present of the professorial staffs of the colleges in tho framing of curricular and syllabuses, and in the conduct of examinations. (2) That the appointment of a Royal Commission is not necessary at present, as the committee believes there is evidence that the University is itself moving in a diwtion which will gradually evolve a schemo of reform on tho lines indicated." That committee, contended witness, had to como to a decision upon a single and very simple issue: Has tho belief of the previous committee "that tho university i'i itself moving in a direction which will gradually evolve a schome of reform on tho lines indicated" proved to bo correct? That belief had been Droved incorrect and tho committee had no other course open than to grant a Roval Commission. Even if it was assumed that the Senate was a highly competent andi earnest body, when it .had completed tho largo task it was now embarking upon it would still havo the arts and science course to improve, and with tho advice of the same professors that it now treats with contempt. There was no escape from the conclusion that the Senate taken as a whole had 110 intention of consulting tho professors and lecturers, or it would have either accepted the conclusion of tho last Professorial Conference or referred those conclusions back to tho conference for alteration in specific directions. The Senate's actual action of abolishing the conference could bo described in 110 other words than irresponsible and reaetionary. It was irresponsible inasmuch as it "wasted its own time, that of tho professors and lecturers, and the funds entrusted to its caro to no effect. The Royal Commission would require a chairman of approved ability and the Imperial Government or Mr. had just completed a similar commission with regard to English universities — should bo asked to appoint a suitable man. • It was pointed out to Professor Laby that tho committee had only accepted the evidence tendered beforo the lasf committee and not their report, t Mr. Sidoy: This committee may como to the conclusion that reform is desirablo, but not that a Royal Commission should bo sot up; and we should be qui to logical. Professor Laby: I submit you would bo repbrting,ngainst tho entfro weight of evidence given. Mr. Sidey: Don't you think that if we have only one educational expert on that commission his views would dominate the findings? Professor Laby: I should see no Doint in putting him there if his opinion was not to havo weight. A man would bo unsuited to sit on,such a commission unless he had knowledge of universities other than in New Zealand. The president intimated that that was tho whole of the evidence unless Gtago wished to givo evidence, and that 1 there was no reason why the committee should not come to a decision at their next meeting.