THE ROYD GARLICK INQUIRY.

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1847, 5 September 1913, Page 8

THE ROYD GARLICK INQUIRY.

$ QUESTIONS OF SALARY AND EXPERIENCE. MR. CARUCK CROSS-EXAMINED. The Royd Garlic!; Inquiry Committee sat again yesterday afternoon, the Hon. J. A. Millar presiding. The cross-ex-amination of Mr. Garlick, who had given evidence on the previous evening, was continued by Mr. Wilford. In answer to questions by Mr. Wilford, tho witness said that ho had obtained his position as a member of the Australasian Massage Institute without passing any examination. He complied with the conditions then in force. An examination was now necessary before a .man could become a. member. He had been masseur at the Wellington Hospital. There was no masseur there before. A He would not say that the position had been created for him. He did not know whether applications for the position were called or not. Dr. Ewart was superintendent of the Hospital when ho was appointed. He had ncv-er passed an examination in any re'hool or ohvsical culture institution in Swedish drill. _ He had never sat for any certificate in Swedish drill, and had obtained no certificates as an expert. There were 110 such institutions in Australia issuing certificates. Mr. Wilford: So when you tell us what you are, wo have to take your word for it?—" Yes; and what evidence I can bring to support me." The witness further said that one of the medical men who had recommended him (Dr. Makgill) had been 0110 of his pupils, and the other was Dr. Hardwick Smith, under whom he had worked at the ITosnital. Major Hume, who was to he called as a witness later, had also been a pupil of his. He had ricver had an opportunity of sitting for a certificate. A Test Proposed. Would you bo prepared to go through a test with an expert in Swedish drill whom I can produce, before this committee —"No; I do not- think it right." Could you?—"I could; but I do not think it necessary, and I have never professed to be an expert in advanced Swedish." You are not a Swedish drill expert? —"I am to this extent: that I have a general knowledge of the principles of Swedish drill, with n. special knowledge of certain branches." Then you are a modified Swedish 'expert?—"l suppose so." You could put a class through advanced Swedish drill in public?—"l could." A man who could not take up tho right positions could not be held to be a Swedish drill expert, or even to have an elementary knowledge of the system ? —"No." If Dalton is right' when he says, that you could not take -up tho correct positions, you have not ah elementary knowledge of the system?—"lf he is right, of course I must be wrong." And if Johnston is right in saying that you do not know the positions, you are not an expert?—"lf he is right." Dalton was engaged in vour wifo's school as an instructor? —"Yes." Was ho mlit in sayine that you onco went into his class?—" Yes." Experience In Massage. Questioned further, tho witness said that Mrs. Garlick stopped the class because it was falling-off in Dalton's hands. Sho asked him to oomo back bccauso sho was "desperately liard up" for an instructor to take an elementary class. Ho thought that Dalton had been telling the truth so far as 110 know it. Ho admitted that if ho could not got tho right commencing positions 113 was a child in Swedish drill. Ho had never taken r, definite course in physiology or anatomy, or sat for any examination in these subjects. Mr. Nystroein, of Melbourne, was a masseur, not a doctor. "Masseur" was tho only word he had on his plate in Collins Street: He had left Sweden over 20 years ago. The only times the witness mot Nystroem was when he came to tho witness's aunt's. privato hospital, and when ho went, to Nystroem's rooms. Ho had seen Nystroem at work on his patients. He had had 1 two years' experience in tho privato hospital. Hp left Australia in 1898, and went back for a month's visit to Australia, spending most of tho timo in Melbourne. After ho left, Nystroem sent him a testimonial. During his visit lie demonstrated his work on Nystroom's patients. - Mr. Wilford: So that is vour sole certificate of proficiency?—" Yes, and I am proud of it. Mr. Nystroem' was first-assistant in the 'school of Dr. Anders Viedfl in Stockholm." That- was twenty odd years ago?— "That is so." Do you know, of anyone in New Zealand who has certificates?—" No." Another Expert, You were appointed in ' November, 1912. Do you know whether Mr. Allen or Mr. Hogben knew in October that a man was on his way to the Dominion who had gone through a thorough course of medical, educational, and military Swedish drill in Stockholm?— "Now tliat you mention it I beliovo a man with certificates is in the Dominion." Did a relative of his, a teacher, inform tho Department that this man was coming out?—"I believe so." That man is Mr. Salerins, who has been appointed to several- schools in Christcmirch ? —"Yes." Do you know that ho was nn applicant for your position?—"l don't know that." Did ho apply for a position as assistant? —"Yes." Did you turn him down? — I cannot •sav that. I " .. You can dccline to answer if you like. The witness: "Mr. Salerins told mo that lie could take the position for only throe or four months, and that he intended then to go into privato practice. ; I tokl him that he could make more I in practice than the - salary wo could offer him." Mr. Wilford: You were very coy about taking the position? You had to bo pressed?—'"l was not inclined to take it at first. *11 Mr. Wilford: You're appointment was not liurried? Mr. Allen: I never admitted it was hurried. „ , Mr. Wilford: Mr. Hogben did yester- ' day. The Salary Question. Answering questions on tihe matter 1 of salary, tho witness said that in 1912 lie had earned £1000. His expenses were £600 or £700, so that his net earnings were not more than £400. He could not have paid inconio tax on more than £100. n , Mr*-" Wilford ; So your net earnings were not £600?—" I didn't say so at any time." ~ Thou it was not tmo that yen were earning £600 net? "Yes." Theii how do you account tor Mr. Allen's statement in the House that you were earning more money than tho ,salarv of the position ?—"I- don't think that the. Minister had scon my income tax return when ho said that. Ho was reivin"- 011 my own statement. ' The"statemo)it was made on July 9, 1913. Had 110 seen the return then?— "I reallv cannot say." Hn-ve you shown him the return with, in tho last six weeks?—"l think so." Since the inquiry started?—"l can't sav exactly." So you nave never earned moro than £600?—" I. earned £1000," Now, Mr, Garlfek, you do not jho oQcmuttoo to believe that jtion jou

took £1000 you were earning £1000? — "I was earning £1000." Not £1000 net?—" Not £1000 net." Exactly. So yen aro getting moro now than before you wero appointed?— "Yos." Noarlv double?—" No." Woil,"say £359 to £600. And then there are travelling expenses?—" Yes." What expenses did you get when you wont to Australia?—"Aiguinea a day." And all train and boat fares? —"Yes." And taxi-cab hire?—" Which I used in tho service of the Government." Did taxi-cab hiro cost £8? —"I don't know." Was there an item on your expenses sheet for £8 lis. lOd. for taxi-cab hiro and petty expenses?—"l don't remember tho details." Now, as a matter of fact, you wanted this position very badly ?—"Why ?" For financial reasons. —"Certainly not." I do not suggest for a moment that you wero in any financial difficulty or that you owed a penny, but that you wanted tho position because vou could earn more if you had it. fsn't that about it? —"No." There liad been a good deal of regret mingled with his enjoyment in accepting the position, » Ho had never asked a single person to congratulate him on the appointment. Ho had written a letter to Hornibrook, expressing wonder that 110 had not had a "word of encouragement" from him since his appointment. There was no mention of congratulation in tho letter. Ho wroto the letter to Hornibrook to test him, as tho witness had cause to suspect him of having written a certain letter to tho "Lyttelton Times" about the appointment. He received a rqjly from Hornibrook. In that reply, ho thought, Hornibrook expressed the opinion that a medical m3n should have been appointed. Tho witness did not have the letter with him, but said ho would bring it down at a future sitting. The breathing exercises in the book wore entirely his In his advertisements ho 'had never mentioned himself as a Swedish drill expert. He had advertised at various times as a teacher of tho Sandow system, masseur, and physical cnltumt.' He had never received a penny for his work at the Hospital, his duties being strictly honorary. Tho profession of masseur was a honourable one, and he protested against people casting a slur on it, as if it were not. Mr. Wilford: I have never at any timo suggested that tho profession was not a most honourable and worthy one. Mrs. Carlich's School. Mr. Wilford: Mr. Allen said yesterday, that the name of Mra. Garlick had been "dragged in." Is it not the fact that the first question that was asked about Mrs. Garlick was asked by Mr. Herdman, upon which I put in a copy of'her prospectus ?—"I can't' say exactly who mentioned her namo first." You know tho wifo of a railway man cannot enter into business? —"I don't know that-." You know that the wifo of a policeman cannot enter into business?—"l don't know." . Don't you seo that tho circular issued by Mrs. Garlick was injudiciously .worded?—"l don't think so." I accept Mrs. Garlick's letter that you have nothing to do with the school. —"I accept your assurance." ■ Mr. Wilford quoted from Mrs. Garlick's circular tho following words: "The Ro.vd Garlick School of Physical Culture is prepared to accept students for training as teachers of physical, education." He asked: "Have you teachers of physical education under you?" The witness: Yes. Mr. Wilford: If teachers aro required have you the power of recommendation? —"Yos." Well, don't you seo that tho wording is unfortunate? —"No." Wouldn't a different wording give other physical cult.urists a feeling of security?—"l don't soo that." , I don't suggest that you have any interest in tho ownership of the school, or any share in its profits. Don't you think it unfortunate that your namo is still used in connection with it?—"My wife has had an idea for a lone time of setting up a school." Dtm t you think your namo should come off.'it ?—"No. The school would he of 110 value without tho name. It mado its reputation as the Royd Garlick School, and if tho namo were taken away, she would, have to work it right up again from tho start." When he was appointed to the committee of advice before the scheme was instituted, he did not know that such a post as director would ever bo created, and he could not, therefore, have, lmd any idea, that he would bo an applicant for it. " Mr. Wilford: If you are a Swedish drill expert why will you not allow me to bring' another expert to put you through the exercises, and to be put through them by you?—" Because I declino absolutely to 'be put to such an indignity." . Members: Hear, hear. Tho witness that fifty instructors would be sufficient for the efficient carrying out of the scheme. He thought'a salary of £200 would bo sufficient for instructors. The Salary Again. Mr. 'Allen asked tho witness some further questions with regard to tho matter of salary. Your returns were steadily improving?—" Yes." In tho first seven months and a half of 1912, when you wore appointed, you had made £800? —"Yes." That amounts to £1280 a yearP— "Yes." Your expenses were about £650 a year?—" Yes." Which leaves a net profit of £630 ?— "Yes.". What was your principal expense? Was it rent?—" Yes." Including houso rent? —"No. Only, gymnasium rent. There were also extensive alterations." And travelling expenses?—" Yes. Thev wore a heavy item." Then it was reasonable for me to' assume that you would be earning more than £600? —"Yes. My rent this year would have been reduced by 50 per cent." Did your wife endeavour to get an instructor from Sweden?—" Yes." She wanted a man to tako my place, but could not get 0110 for less than £450 a year for six hours' work a day, with tho right to conduct a private practice." This concluded Mr. Garlick's evidence. Major Hume's Evidence. John Edward Hume, major in command of tho Royal New Zealand Artillery, said that ho had known Royd Garlick for the last three or four years. He took a course of tuition with Garlick, whose gymnasium 110 frequently attended. Garlick was sometimes short of instructors, and the witness had then taken tho business men's class. He had often heard and seen Garlick at work, with all kinds of classes. Since Garlick gave up tho gymnasium, he had not often been there, but he had been given to understand that he was an honorary member, and could "drop in" whenever he liked. He was very keen on gymnastic work, and preferred going to the gymnasium for an hour before dinner to having a sherry and bitters, as some men did. Ho had always considered Garlick a most capable man ill liis profession. He had taken an interest in the work for twenty-five years, and had mot many instructors. Ho had some knowledge of tho principles of Swedish drill. All the exercises carried out in Garlick's school had been Swedish movements. Ho should think that Garlick was very thoroughly acquainted with the principles of Swedish drill. He had never seen a case of special treatment in Garlick's hands. Ho had always considered, from what ho jaw of tho work, that Garlick epeo i&liaod in respiratory exercises. Ho was

particularly strong in that class' of work. This form of exorcise was of groat importance, especially to children. To Air. Guthrie: He had had a wide experience of physical training work, and was well capable of judging. Ho saw the display given by instructors in the Town Hall, and was pleased with it. ' He thought tho work had been done very creditably. Ho would not tako the trouble of contradicting the statements of the witness Dalton, who 110 did not think was a competent judge. ' He had seen Dalton at work, and formed his conclusion accordingly. Ho thought Garlick was a thoroughly wellqualified man. If a man possessed a first-class Army certificate as an instructor, he would not necessarily bo a man fitted to organise a new national scheme. To Mr. Scott: A man trained at Aldershot might be a competent man to teach children. There was nothing to prevent his getting further experience, so as to be ablo to adapt tho military system to tho needs of children. To Mr. Statham: Ho had never seen Swedish drill ca'rried out in exact accordance with the Swedish manual. To tho chairman: Tho staff instructor's certificate was tho highest certifi- > eate given in the Navy. The opinion , 'of a man holding such a certificate on Swedish drill would bo worth'considering. Mr. Wilford: Did you volunteer to give evidence? —"Yes." To whom?—"l can't say oxactly. Mr.'Allen: Did anyone apprpach you to ask you to givo evidence ?-rr>"No." 1 Did Mr. Wilford approach you?— "No" Did anyone approach you on his behalf?—" No." Mr. Wilford: A bad shot. The Committee adjourned until Tuesday.at 3 p.m. Tho evidence of Drs. Hardwick Smith and Mason will then be taken. Other witnesses still to be examined are Messrs. Just and Mooro, two of the instructors,, and Sir- A. D. ' Thomson, Public Service Commissioner.