N. REWETI.]

13

I.—3a.

34. Hon. Sir J. Carroll] Were there other estates belonging to those hapus outside of Orakei? —Yes. 35. Were they awarded to those thirteen, or to other members of tribes? —To other members, and one or two of these in the grant named. 36. Name those blocks? —Ongarahu Block; Maramatawhana —some are interested and some are not; Otakanini —some are interested and some are not. 37. Did the Uruamo family—or, rather, were they put into those blocks besides the Orakei? —Yes, they are in Uruarua, and they are in a place called Te Hiore Kata, Ac. Only themselves — uo others. 38. Were those blocks heard by the Court about the same time as Orakei? —I do not know the date. 39. Do you know anything about the land sold stretching away to Kaipara?—This is the Waitemata. This was sold by Kawau te Tinana and Horo and Te Reweti Tamaki. 40. Were the members of those three hapus mentioned in the judgment of Orakei I—Yes.1 —Yes. 41. Those names you have read out do not include any of the thirteen?—They are the ancestors. 42. Was it possible, do you think, or can you say, that those who are claiming for inclusion now in the Orakei —left out and belonging to those tribes —were they participating in other lands belonging to those tribes to the exclusion of those in the Orakei Block? Can you show that any of the people on whose behalf the petition claims are included in the grants of other blocks belonging to these three hapus?—No, Ido not know. lam not in a position to say. 43. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] Do you say that the Uruamo are not entitled to be included?—No, lie was not. His name was mentioned in the meeting held by the others outside the Court. They discussed the matter, and found that he had no right to be put in. 44. Why—had he no occupation? All you are prepared to admit is that Uruamo was a member of the tribes mentioned in the certificate? —1 do not know whether he was or was not. The old man (Wiremu Watene) knows all about that. 45. Mr. Bell.] When that agreement was come to one man objected on the ground that he thought that the people he represented would be excluded from any interests in the land unless the names were put in? —Yes, I understand that. 46. You thought your people would be excluded unless the names were put in? —That is what Paora Tuhaere said he wished—that more names be put in; and he thought that those members of his tribe whose names were not inserted would get no share of the land. 47. That rather looks as if he knew that they were all to get a share of the land but that he was afraid he would be swindled?—He only explained that. 48. Which shows he seems to have thought that whether the names were in or not they were to get a share of the land?—lf they did not get their names in they would get no share. 49. How many people are opposing this petition?—Twelve people. 50. Are you interested in this thing yourself ?—Yes. Wiremu Watene examined. (No. 4.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your name? —Wiremu Watene, 2. Hon. Mr. Herries.] Do you know what tool*: place when the Court sat at Orakei?—Yes. 3. How was the list of names arrived at?—lt was done by arrangement. 4. How was it done —between the members of the tribes or between the lawyers?—The members of the three hapus. The three hapus appointed the three lawyers. 5. The three hapus met and settled the names? —Yes. 6. Did they understand whether the names of those who were to be put into the title were to be owners or trustees? —Apihai te Kawau, the trustee, arranged for the other names. 7. Were they trustees or owners?—Absolute owners. 8. Was Uruamo's name mentioned to go in? —That was fought out. 9. Apihai insisted that the children of Uruamo should be included. Who disagreed with that? —Paora Tuhaere and the other persons. 10. Were you present at the Court when Paora Tuhaere got up and made a statement that he was afraid his descendants would lose the land? —They discussed the matter at the Native settlement, and, having decided what was to be done, took the matter into the Court and tested the matter at Court. 11. Did you hear of any objections to the names?—No, 1 did not hear that. 12. Hon. Dr. Pomare.] Do you maintain that this land was for the thirteen owners absolutely? —Yes. 13. Do you think that it was an equitable arrangement?—No, it was not. 14. Why?—The reason was this: other members of those hapus had been included in lands at the Kaipara. Other members of them were included at Orakei, and the ancestor of this boy here (Ngapipi Reweti) was put in only in Kaipara land, and the father of the petitioner was put into the Kaipara land. 15. Were some of those owners not included in some of the Kaipara land?—ln some lands. I myself, for example. 16. Did the thirteen owners have any brothers or sisters?—The grandfather of this boy (Ngapipi Reweti) was an elder brother of Paora Tuhaere. He was not included in the land. 17. Were there anv others? —No.