I.—3a

14

W. WATENE.

Thursday, 12th September, 1912. Wiremu Watenh's evidence continued. (No. 5.) The Chairman: Call Wiremu Watene. 1. Hon. Dr. The witness is one of those included in the original title? —Yes. 2. Did you have any brothers or sisters? —They are all dead. 3. Were they living at the time you were put in? —My younger brother was. 4. Why was he not included? —They were put into our other lands in Kaipara. 5. Were you left out of the Kaipara lands?—l was not put in. 6. Up to the present time? —I have to succeed them in those lands. 7. Mr. Parata.] When the arrangement was come to by the people concerned in this block in 1869, was that an arrangement that those of the hapu who had kaiangas at Kaipara should have the land there, and those at Orakei should have Orakei ? —That was so. 8. Was that the reason why Paora Tuhaere, the elder brother, was not put into the land at Orakei —that he had land at in the Kaipara district? —Yes. 9. Did Paora Tuhaere get into the original Kaipara land originally? —I cannot reply; I cannot say. 10. Do 1 understand you to say this, that the difference between these hapus is because of those who have already got their lands in different parts? There was a sort of division. Some got lands at Kaipara and some of the same tribe got their laud (say) in the Auckland District?— That was the arrangement made —that was the arrangement made in connection with the three hapus, Te Taou, Ngaoho, and Te Uringutu. 11. Hon. Dr. Pomare.] You say the arrangement was that the Natives included in the Kaipara land should not participate in the Orakei land?—Yes. 12. Then, why were some of the grantees included in the Kaipara lands?—l myself was simply included in those lands as a successor to my younger brother. 13. But the others besides you? —I do not think any one of them was included at the hearing prior to Orakei. 14. But the Orakei was the first case heard? —No. Pukeatua and other blocks were the first heard. 15. But you do not deny that some of the other grantees were included in the Kaipara lauds? —As successors. 16. Not before? —Some of the other lands there, prior to that time in which the descendants of Uruamo were included —they were put in. 17. Then they did not stick to their bargain : the bargain was of no use?—lt was then —in the days of the elders —the chiefs. 18. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] Was Eruena Paerimu included in all the Kaipara land? —No. 19. Was Arama Karaka? —Yes, he was put in. 20. And members of the Reweti families, besides Paora Tuhaere? —The Wiremu Reweti was included in Kopironui. 21. Were any of the members of the Uruamo family present when this arrangement was made? —Yes. Aperahama was there and Tahana Uruamo. 22. The arrangement was not made in open Court, was it? —No; the arrangement was made at Ohaku. 23. Do you admit that in the course of their evidence in the Orakei case the occupation by Uruamo was given in evidence in substantiation of their case?—No. 24. Perhaps you do not know what evidence was given at this Court? —I do not. 25. How old were you then? Somewhere about twenty, more or less. 26. At the time of the Court? —It commenced in 1868. 27. Did you take part in the proceedings then?—l was present there. 28. Did you take part in the proceedings?—l was there. 29. Did you take part in the proceedings?—No, I was present there. 30. Mr. Parata.] Where was the permanent kaianga of the Uruamo family?—Kaipara. 31. Were they a Kaipara family or Orakei family? —Kaipara; they were born there. 32. It is stated in the evidence that Uruamo was the man who cleared the bush at Orakei : is that correct? —That is absolutely a false statement made to the Committee. 33. You deny that. Is that true or not? —I heard from my elders that it was my own elder who first of all cleared the bush off that land. 34. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] What is the name of your ancestor?—Whatarangi. 35. Mr. F. H. Smith.] In what year was the bush felled? —I do not know. My father's name was Wiremu Tautari. 36. Hon. Dr. Pomare] Did Uruamo occupy at Orakei? —Yes. 37. And did his son? —Yes. 38. Did you know Orakei?—Right down to the present time. I was born there, and am still living there. Apihai was a chief and was in there, and it was they who performed this work. The Chairman: Otene Paora, do you want to ask any questions? Otene Paora: Yes. 39. Otene Paora.] You have said that you did not give evidence in the Court of 1869 : is that true? —Yes. 40. Now, on the 16th October, 1868, did you not, at 10 a.m. on that date, give evidence before the Court? Now, I have here an extract which says that you were sworn at 10 o'clock on that day. You are William Watene, are you not?—William Watene is my name. William Tautari was my father. 41. Will you say that Uruamo was not a chief? —I do.