G.—2.

92

[MANUARURE.

pi. What rents do they receive in respect of that block?— They succeeded to their grand- . parents, and I cannot say how much they get. 52. What are they interested in?—Te Manuku, Te Uaua, Maine, Ngatitaruraue No. 5, and No; 2 Ngatirahiri, the block lam working in. That is all. 5-3. I understand you to say you have held these 200 acres for four years?- —Between four and five years. 54. How much bush have you cut down upon that land? —160 acres. 55. And how much have you grassed? —All of it. 56. Aud do I understand you to say that if the tribe asked for the land that you will hand it back to them without payment? —I say that when 1 have received back from the land the money I have expended, and I am nearly compensated for it now, 1 will return the land to them. 57. Will you tell me how much is owing by the land now for which you have not been compensated? —About £100. 58. Then, on payment of about £100 by the tribe you are prepared to hand back that land? —Yes, if 1 received the £100 1 would return the land to the tribe. 59. W T as Arapata the grandfather of the children? — Yes. Mr. Zachariah: No succession order has been issued yet for Arapata. 60. Mr. Welsh.] In the Ngatamaranga Block there are 6,186 acres, and the same number'of shares ?—Yes. 61. The grandfather's share was ten shares out of 1,086? —Probably; I do not know. 62. His rent was Bs. per half-year, and your four children's interest would be a quarter of that? —Probably, Mr. Zachariah: In respect of No. 2 Ngatirahiri, the four shares total forty out of 2,297, and the rent is £2 13s. 4d. for each half-year. Block 3, Ngatirahiri, are lands not under perpetual lease. 6.1. Mr. Kerr.] Did you secure any title to the 200 acres which you felled and grassed which is vested in the Public Trustee? —No. 64. You just took it up at the instance of your people?— Yes. 68. So that really you have no title—you are only there on suffranee?—Yes. I have 1 acre there, 66. You simply hold the land at the will of the Public Trustee; you have no title from the Public Trustee? — No. Pahunga Tumarua sworn and examined. (No. 38.) 1. Mr. Bell.] Dα you own any land? —Yes, 80 acres. 2,. Amongst how many owners? —Five owners. 3. Who. is working that land? —My brother. 4. On what land do you live?—Oeo Road, on the Ngatitama-ahuaroa Block. 5. Who is the owner of that land? —My wife. 6. How many acres are there? —There are 100 acres, held under occupation license. 7. Are you occupying any more land? —Yes, 190 acres of reserve. 8. What are you doing on that 190 acres?— Milking twenty-nine cows, and 1 have fortyseven heifers and six horses. 9. What is the quality of the land?—l'oor land. 10. How many years have you been milking? — I was milking for one year without a cowshed, and three years since I built the cow-shed — four yea,rs altogether. ... 11. Where were you before that? —At Parihaka. 12. How did you manage to buy your cows?— With the assistance of my European friends. 13. Did they lend you money? —They gave it to me for the grass. 14. Did you borrow money from your pakeha friends? —Yes, and with it I. bousrht milkinscows. b B 15. How many? —Seventeen. 16. Did you have any cattle on the land before you bought the cows?— Yes, I had some cattle on the land, which I fattened and sold. 17. Were the cattle your own?,—No, they belonged to my European friends. That was my start. . 18. Did you give a mortgage over your cows?— Yes, so that 1 could increase the number of my cows. ■ . 19. Have you paid off that mortgage?— Yes. 20. Do you owe anything on your cows? —No. 21. Have- you got with you your milk returns from Kaupokonui ?—Yes. [Produced and put in, Exhibit E.] L 22. What was the land like when you started to work it?— lt was heavily covered with gorse 23. Is it cleared now?— Yes. " b 24. Is it fenced?— Yes. 25. Who did the fencing?—My pakeha neighbours—one on each side 26. Who paid for the fencing?—Rauherekau. 27. Did you pay anything towards the cost of the fencing? Yes. 28. Have you got any sheds? —Yes, one which I built. 29. How did you get the material?— From the sale of the milk . ~,3C) Cross-examined by Mr. Welsh.] How many cows are you milking?— Twenty-nine 31. How many do you expect to be milking next season?— The whole of the forty-seven and the twenty-nine also. There will be about fifty cows altogether that I shall be mUkinl next season; I shall cull some out. musing next