MANUARUPE.

91

G.—2.

12. What was the condition of the land then?— The 46 acres was almost covered with gorse. I ploughed it, and sowed it in oats and wheat. 13. Did you get the 50 acres at the same time as the 46 acres? —No, it was when the Public Trustee allotted papakaingas or homesteads. 14. In what condition was the 50 acres when you got it?— 2 or 3 acres were covered with gorse, and I cleared them. 15. What did you do with the 50 acres? —I ploughed it, and sowed it in turnips. 16. Then, the rest of the land you got later?— Yes, the 34 acres about five years ago. 17. And the 21 acres?— About nine years ago. 18. What is the condition of all the land now?-—lt is one of the best farms in the district. 19. Is it all well grassed?— Yes, the whole of it, and I spent £30 or £40 a year on topdressing and manure. 20. Are there any noxious weeds on it?—l object to noxious weeds growing on the land. 21. How many cows have you?—l have sixty milking-cows. 22. How do you milk them? —By machine. 23. How did you get the money to buy the cows in the first place? —By the sweat of my brow —by ploughing the land and sowing oats. 24. Did you sell the oats?— Yes, and also turnips. 25. How many cows did you start with? —Ten. 26. How long have you been milking? —Over six years. 27. How have you managed to get the additional cows? —I did not confine my operations to milking just the ten cows on that land, but I continued ploughing and sowing turnips, which I sold, and with the profits from the oats, wheat, and turnips and the ten milkers I bought other cattle. 28. What does your milk cheque run yip to per month?—£sl from the sixty cows. 29. For about how long would you get a cheque of that size in a year?— For three or four months. 30. And what bonus did you get last year?—£sl 10s. 31. I think you have one share in the North Taranaki Dairy Factory?— Yes. 32. What tribe do you belong to?—Manaporihi. 33. I think that tribe owns a block of land in the Rimutauteka Block? —Yes. 34. Of how many acres? —There are 500 acres altogether, but 300 acres have been taken by the Public Trustee, leaving only 200 for the owners. 35. Under what Act has the 300 acres been leased? —Under the 1892 Act, I think —that is the one with the perpetual lease. 36. Did the Public Trustee lease the remaining 200 acres?—No; he tried to get them. Mr. Fisher was the Reserves Agent then, and I met him at Waitara and told him that I had heard he intended to try and take the 200 acres, and 1 asked him not to, because the owners had no other land. There were forty-two owners. I told him that this land was not sufficient for the forty-two owners, and he said that 5 acres was quite sufficient for a Maori. I said to him, "It is all very well for a man like you to say that when you are receiving your £500 a year; you might be able to live on that, but I could not live on the 5 acres." I told him that 5 acres would not support me. 37. I think the land was left in the hands of the tribe? —Yes. 38. And you made arrangements with other members of your tribe? —Yes. 39. What was that arrangement?— Well, Mr. Fisher said to me on one of his rounds later that he would not say any more about the 200 acres, and that he did not yitend to touch it. Then I went to the pa to consult my elders and grandparents—the whole tribe—about handing the 200 acres over to me so that I could work it. The land was bush land, and it could not be easily cleared —it would require money to do it. I told them I had the money and that I would do it. I said it was not asking for the land for the enrichment of the elders, but for the benefit of our children, because that was all the land we had left. They all consented, and I cut down the bush and improved the land, had it all sown in grass, and fenced the whole of it. I have had the land between four or five years now. I told him that if they refunded to me the money I spent on the place I would show them consideration. They are old people, and I still provide food for them. 40. Are you ready to hand back the land to them if they pay you what you have spent on it? —What I meant to say was that I have already had the money refunded to me by the profits made out of the land, and consequently I am prepared to hand the land back to them if they wished to have it—l would return it to them. 41. What are you using the land for now? —I have sixty-four two-year-old cattle running on it. 42. How far is it from your other land? —Six miles. 43. Was it all in heavy bush?— Yes. There were 160 acres in heavy bush and the balance was fern and scrub, and it also had blackberries on it. 44. How much bush did you get down in the first year?—llo acres. 45. Is it good land?— Part of it is very steep. It is not all good land. Some parts of it a cow could not get over. 46. Are there any other milkers in your locality?— Yes, over twenty. 47. Grogs-examined by Mr. WelsJi.] Are you a member of the union? —Yes. 48. Are you a grantee of any grants of land leased under the Act of 1881?— Do you mean under the perpetual lease? 49. No, under the old lease? —No, but my children are. 50. In respect of what grants are your children interested? —No. 5 Block, Ngatirahiri, but I could not say the number of acres.