p. TOl.;

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22. Did you do any work while they were alive?- Yes, we cultivated potatoes, kumeras, taro, and wheat. 23. Where was that? —At Parihaka. 24. I think some of your land is leased by the Public Trustee under the 1892 Act? —Yes. 25. How much rent do you get? —Sometimes £1 in six months and sometimes 10s. and £-2.--26. Now, has there been any change in the Maori since Te Whiti and Tohu died?— Yes. 27. What is that change?—My view of it is that they have all turned their minds to work the land. VV'liile Te Whiti and Tohu were alive all the Maoris embraced their teachings. 28. I think you are secretary of the union? —Yes. 29. What are the objects of the union? —1 know the whole history of it from the time of its inception. On the death of Te Whiti and Tohu we formed this combination for the purpose of being of one mind to prosecute and work our lands, and also to have the lands returned to our own hands from the Public Trustee —that is, that the lands should be returned to us on the expiry of the term for which they were leased. We were told by Messrs. Bell and Fox that we had a grant from the Queen, and that the land should be ours, and would be returned to us. 30. Are most of the other Maoris as enthusiastic as you are about the union? —Yes, I am only one; we are all of the same mind. 31. Gross-examined by Mr. Welsh.] What is the total area of lands held by your family?— 81 acres or more. 32. How long have they been held by your family?— This is the fourth year. .33. Prior to that who held those lands? —They were held by the will of the people. 34. How many are there in your family?— Six. 35. Of the 81 acres, how many are now held by the Maoris and how many by the European?— The whole of it is retained by us. 36. Is not the European occupying some of it at present?—l have said that I did lease it. 37. Does the European still retain some? —Yes. As an approximate estimate, I should say he has 38 acres. .. . 38. And there are 43 acres held by the Maoris? —Yes. 39. How long have you and your people been in occupation of those 43 acres?— One year — from April, 1910. 40. Have you any stock upon it?— Yes, I have three horses of my own, and there are some cows on it belonging to some other Maoris. 41. Not your family?—No, not the family, other Maoris. 42. What stock have you of your family's on the land? —Well, we are scattered. Some of us are distant further down. 43. What stock have you of your own or your family's on the land in addition to the three horses? —Not any. 44. You took your first crop of hay off the land last summer, I suppose?— Yes. 45. And what is the land used for now?— There are some cows running on it owned by some other Maoris, and also by a pakeha named Solway. 46. How many are there of Solway's?—l do not know exactly, but, say, fifty of Solway's own cattle. * 47. And how many belonging to the Maoris?— About eighteen. 48. And I suppose Solway pays you rent for grazing the stock? —Yes. 49. Do the other Maoris also pay for grazing the stock? —No. 50. Mr. Bell.] When did you take the hay off the land?—ln February of this year. 51. Is it since then that the stock has been put on?— Yes. 52. Why did you not put on stock yourself ?—Well, I allowed his cattle to be put on because Solway is going to supply me with milking-cows this coming year. 53. Mr. Kerr.} You say you followed Te Whiti's teaching?— Yes. 54. What was his teaching in regard to the land?— All he told us was to cultivate food 00. But since his death you say you have altered your policy, and that the Natives hare turned their minds to working the land?— Yes, in the way of milking. 56 But only in the way of milking?— Well, we are going in more extensively for farming and milking cows. ■ ■ e> 57. It is five years since Te Whiti died? —Yes. 58. Have the Natives done anything to work the lands round about Parihaka since his death? —Yes. 59. Could you say how many have taken up lands at Parihaka ?—No. I could not say 60. Can you say how much land they have taken up?—No, I cannot say. 61. These lands are not in the hands of the Public Trustee, are they?— Some of them are 62. And some are still in the hands of the Natives?— Yes. u 63 lu W xT h '• egarC ? t0 lat }4 s . vested in the Publ, '° Trustee, have any of those lands been taken up by the Natives since Te Whiti's death?— You mean the lands that have been returned to the Maoris? 64. No; you said certain lands at Parihaka are vested in the Public Trustee?—No, the lands that are vested in the Public Trustee have no Maoris on. 65. Are the lands at Parihaka occupied by any one else?—l am not able to say 66. Have you taken the trouble to inquire from the Public Trustee what lands are available for settlement by the Maori at Parihaka?—No. _ 67 How is that, if you are wanting lands to work?— Well, what we have been thinking of is the 18.000 acres. 6 68. Lands that are already improved ?—Those are the lands that we understood were :to revert to us when the leases expired.

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