G.—2.

K. P. TAMATI-O-RAUKAWA,

76: Now, I suppose that the Maori nature is much the same as the European nature to this extent : that there are some.good hard workers amongst them, and I suppose there are some who are not hard workers but who are lazy people? —It depends upon the privilege we have to go and work the land before we can say who is the worker and who is the lazy one. Of course, we are all energetic now, and all milking cows. 77. But there are, I suppose, amongst you some lazy people who will not work? —The old people with bent backs may refuse to work. All those young people you see in the Court are hard workers. 78. And all fit to work the land as farmers? —Yes. They have had two or three years' education since out advent out of Parihaka. 79. I am pleased to hear you have advanced so much since the Parihaka days?—We are all working. 80. And this land would be divided, then, amongst these people equally?—lt would be for the whole of the people to divide the land between them. 81. But would not each person be entitled to the same amount of land? — Ihat would be by. the decision of the people. 82. I hope you will not-leave any of those industrious workers out and give them no land? — If there is not sufficient land for them to go round, then they will simply put their hand out and ask for more. 83. Who from ?—From you —the people who hold the land. 84. Where are those lands?— Between Waitotara and Paraninihi. 85. Are you speaking of the lands under the Act of 1892 that you would take?—l just say from Waitotara to Paraninihi. 86. Are you aware that there is a great number of Europeans holding Maori lands under the Act of 1892? —I do not recognize them at all; all I look at is the Act of 1881 and the Act of 1892. 87. And you know the Acts of 1881 and 1892?— Yes. The Act of .1892 has gone. The Public Trustee has told me that there was a twenty-one-years lease in that case. 88. Then, you do not ask that any lands held by the European under the Act of 1892 should be handed back to the Maori ? —Let it be understood at once that that is what I am asking. I am claiming the 18,399 acres under the Act of 1881. Sir James Carroll and the Public Trustee said there were 18,399 acres. 89. And the next day what are you going to claim?—No one can say what will occur to-morrow. 90. If you get these 18,000 acres as you have told us, and that is not enough, what then will be your claims?— That will be for the Government to say whether we have been properly supplied with land, and they should supply us with more if that is insufficient for us. 91. You know Parihaka well, do you not?— Yes. You have been questioning me about that all the time —that is where Ido belong to. I first occupied land in 1870. 92. There is a very large reserve at Parihaka, is there not? —Yes. The Commission adjourned until 11 a.m. on Monday, the 27th May, 1912.

Hawbda, Monday, 27th Mat, 1912. Kahu Pukoeo Tamati-o-Raukawa further examined. 93. Mr. Kerr.\ You made some reference in your evidence to having taken no interest in land-settlement up to the time of Te Whiti's and Tohu's death: can you say when it was that Te Whiti and Tohu died?—Te Whiti died six years ago, and Tohu seven years ago. Tupatba Haumatao sworn and examined. (No. 28.) 1. Mr. Bell.) Have you any land? —Yes, at Manutahi. The block is Taumaha. 2. Have you any other land?—; Yes, at Ilapotiki I have an interest by succession. 3. What do you do with your land at Manutahi? Do you farm it? —At first I leased it to a European. 4. For how long did you lease it?— For ten years. 5. What was the rent the first year?—£2o. 6. And how many acres?—74J acres. There were three owners in the 74£ acres. 7. What was the'rent the second year?—£2s. 8. In what condition was the land when you leased it?—lt was growing in gorse. 9. Was there any fencing on the land? —I did fence it originally. 10. What was the rent the third year?—£2s. 11. And the fourth year?— The same. After the first year I limited the rent so as to allow the European to improve the land. 12. What was the rent in the fifth year?— r The land was then improved and the rent/Avas higher—£4o. . . '. ' ' ' 13. Was the gorse all off then? —Yes. 14. After it was cleared, why did you continue to lease it? —The only reason I continued to lease it was because I had no 'money to buy stock with. ' 15. Where were you jiving while the land Was leased? —Sometimes at Parihaka, and sometimes I would return and live on this leased land." ■■.. :. 16. Are you in possession of the land'yourself now?— Yes, Tarn milking cows upon it.. •■•••:

11- G. 2.

81