G.—2.

82

It. haumatao.

17. How many cows are you milking? —Twenty-fivt 18. What used the pakeha to do with the land ?—Hβ cleared the land, improved it, and put sheep upon it. 19. Now, in your locality are there many Maoris who are prepared to work as you are doing 1 -Yes. 20. You say there are three owners in these 74 acres? —Yes. 21. Are the other two owners both men? —No, one is a woman. 22. Do they live on the land also?— Yes. 23. And who does the milking?- —I and my brother and two children. 24. Do you own any land which is leased under the Act of 1892? —Yes. 25. Do you own any land besides that? —Yes. 26. How many acres? —The same three owners own 127 acres. 27. What is the condition of that land?—l have leased it to the Public Trustee for seven years, and the return I will get will be that the Public Trustee will clear the land, sow it wi.th grass, and fence it. He is not paying us one penny rent. 28. Is the land under bush? —Yes. 29. Why did you not cut down the bush yourself?— Because I have not sufficient money. 30. If you could borrow the money would you have cleared it yourself?— Yes. 31. Is there sufficient land available in your locality for the Natives who are anxious to work? —No, there is not very much land, but I wish to work what there is. 32. Do you know of any Maoris in your locality who are anxious to work but have no land? —Yes. 33. Can you give us an instance?— There are seven owners in one block, which contains only 30 acres, and those seven people wish to do work on the land, but there is not sufficient land for them. 34. Has there been any change in the Maoris since Te Whiti and Tolm died? —Yes. 35. What is that change? —Since the death of Te Whiti and Tohu there has been a desire on the part of the Maoris to progress and work our lands. .' . 3/6. On the 74 acres which you have told us about, are there any noxious weeds?— The young gorse grows up, but it is being kept down. 37. Have you ever been to Wellington in connection with the 1881 leases? —Yes. 38. Whom did you see? —Sir James Carroll, the Public Trustee, and the Leader of "the Opposition. 39. What was said? —When we reached Wellington Kahu Pukoro said to those three persons that he had come to Wellington for the purpose of having the tears wiped from his eyes. Sir James Carroll replied, " You have a fortunate opportunity now, and you will have the 18,000 acres returned to you." 40. Cross-examined by Mr. Welsh.] You are a chief? —Yes. 41. And a member of the union? —Yes. 42. When Kahu Pukoro spoke he was the leader and head man of that deputation?— Yes. 43. The land at Hapotiki is not land in Taranaki, is it? —Yes, at Hawera. 44. What acreage is there there, do you know? —Do you mean the total area of the block? 45. No, your interest?—B acres. 46. There is a number of grantees and a large area, is that so? —Yes. As I said, I obtained my interest by succession to a deceased person. 47. I want to refer for a moment to this Manutahi land that is at Taumaha?—Yes. 48. That land is held by you under occupation license from the Public Trustee, it is not?— Yes. 49. How many of them are there who hold the land under occupation license? —There are only three in this particular license lam speaking of. There are other licenses, of course, outside of this. 50. I am speaking of the 74 acres—there are three in that? —Yes, Tuapatea, Turehu, and myself. 51. Do the three of you dairy on this land now?—No, only the two men. 52. And what does the female do? —She is a woman, and does not work. There are two children also for the actual milking. - : 53. Who is the woman? —Turerm, the wife of Poi. 54. She does not live there? —Yes, she is living with her husband at Whanukura. 55. Do you pay her anything for the share of her land which you use?—l endeavoured to pay her something this last year, but she refused it. 56. Then, it is with her authority and leave that you milk on this land, and you are prepared to pay her but she has refused it ?—Yes. 57. How long have you been milking on this land?— One year. 58. And you held land for ten years before that and did not use it?— That is so. When I say that we did not use it, of course, we had crops and potatoes from it. -•■.. :59. When did you begin to milk?—ln August last. 60. What interests have you got under the Act of 1.881? —Do you mean the rights we had by the individualization of the lands under that Act? 61. No, there is a large area of land leased by the Public Trustee to Europeans under the Act of 1892 that Mr. Bell referred to?— Yes. ■ .62. It is not those lands I refer to —they are gone?— Yes. 63. It is the other lands under the old leases that I refer to?— Yes. ••■ 64. Have you any interests in those lands under the old leases?—No, I have no interest in the 18,000 acres, but I am one of the union between Waitotara and Pairanimhi which is txm* rlutfting bhis matter for the purpose at getting back the 18,000 awres.