91

E.—l2.

M. S. NEWMAN.]

34. You spoke of Victoria, and what is being done there : how many training colleges are there in Victoria? —I know-- of only one in Melbourne. 35. How many students at the training college in Auckland? —100. 36. And there is an equal number in each of the other three in New Zealand? —Yes. 37 r So we have 400 students in training in New Zealand? —Yes. 38. How many do you think are being trained in the whole of Victoria? —I do not know, but I know a good many more kindergarten students are being trained. That is the part I take the greatest interest in. 39. You said just now that kindergarten teaching was being given at the training college here ?—Yes. 40. It is also being given at the training college at Dunedin? —Yes. 41. And I suppose these schools are attached to the training colleges in the two other centres? -Yes. 42. Then, there must be a great many more students receiving kindergarten instruction in New Zealand than in Victoria? —All the better for New Zealand. 43. Mr. Hogben.] Looking forward some years, are you aware how many teachers would be required, supposing we make kindergarten instruction universal in our schools?—We would need a great many; of course, looking forward a great number of years. I think probably if kindergarten principles and home training became what they should, kindergartens would not be so much needed. lam looking at the kindergarten as an influence. Perhaps what you establish now- would be sufficient for later on. 44. With regard to domestic science, have j-ou seen the new regulations for elementary home science in connection with the Junior Civil Service Examinations? —I have not. 45. 27(e Chairman.] I presume you know, as one who has travelled and read, that no progressive educational country in the world, not even Japan, has failed to recognize the value of the kindergarten as an initial step in the system of State education : do you not think the time lias arrived when New Zealand should make that departure?—l do. 46. Will you be surprised to know that it is twenty-eight years since an Education Committee in New Zealand considered this question with a view to its adoption, and that nothing has been done? —I had not heard of that. 47. Is it not a fact, too, that the kindergarten system is admitted on all hands to be the best system known to-day of teaching the young how to use the hand and eye industrially? —Yes. 48. Such being the case, is it a correct or incorrect thing to say that the kindergarten system is the true basis of industrial education? —I think that is quite true. 49. Agreeing in that statement, you think the time has arrived when the kindergarten should form part of the educational system of this Dominion ?—Yes. 50. Can you give us any idea of the number of children who would be likely to enter classes in the four centres, assuming it were grafted on to the State system of education to-morrow, between the ages of three and six? —No, but the number would be very large, and the expense very great; but I think it would be worth it. 51. But would not the primary-schools expenditure be reduced proportionately- by taking into the kindergarten the children now admitted at five? —Yes, if the same expenditure were made to cover both things. 52. Would it surprise you to hear that the testimony of those best qualified to judge is that all children who go through a systematic course in a kindergarten are able to go through the standards of the primary schools much better and to better appreciate the education given there, and are in every way a better product, than the ordinary primary-school course produces?—l think that is quite true, from what I have seen of children myself that have been in kindergartens. They have been absolutely more fit to receive education in the school. 53. And I am safe in saying that the establishment of kindergarten courses in each of the training colleges presumes that the Education Department had some idea of establishing kindergartens as well as the training of kindergarteners? —It shows their appreciation of the kindergarten and its influence on the students. 54. You would indorse the statement that the primary-school system would be better for the incorporation of the kindergarten system right through the course?—A professor in one of the biggest Universities in America said-that no professor in a University could afford to be without a knowledge of the kindergarten. I quite agree with you that it is necessary in all work. Its influence would be very great. Francis Hamilton Brown examined on oath. (No. 7.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you?—l am first assistant in the Newton East School, and President of the Assistant Masters' Association. My qualification is CI. 2. Will you kindly state what you have to say on behalf of your organization?—l wish to emphasize the urgent necessity for more ample play-grounds. Cadet officers, of whom I am one, feel this necessity perhaps more than any other branch of the profession. We have to take the cadets into the road for physical drilling. We agree that the number of examinations at present in vogue is excessive and unnecessary. The principal question that I came to urge was the abolition of clauses (c) and (d) of the Second Schedule of the Act of 1908. Clause (c) says, "At least one of the first three assistants in any school shall be a woman," clause (d), "At least three of the first six assistants in a school must be women." We hold that all the positions should be thrown open in the Dominion —headmasterships, assistantships, or sole charges. We hold that this will be fairer to the whole body of teachers. If they are to be graded on the same list, and a lady is found to be the most efficient on that graded list as established