90

[m. s. newmas

E.—l2.

11. Which gives the better result so far as correlation between school duties and life duties is concerned? —I am positively of opinion that the mixed school for young children is better. — 12. Does that not seem to imply that the teaching of boys and girls together has very little wrong with it? —No, Ido not think'so. I think boys can learn a great deal of this work I have been suggesting as well as girls, and I think it will do them a great deal of good. There is the same fault in-connection with boys' education —I would say there was too little initiative. 13. Dealing with the open-air schools in big cities, do you think a fair comparison can be made with such schools so far as a small Dominion like ours is concerned? —Directly we have the number of children, I think so. We have the same class of children. I think we only need one school in each centre for these children. 14. Have we even sufficient for that yet? —I think so. 15. Have you any statistics to bear you out? —Only that 1 know that I have made inquiries, and in every farge school there are several teachers who have given me lists of the children in their school. I may say this was suggested by a teacher in a large school in Auckland to go south as a remit. 16. You know there are schools for the normal children and schools for the mentally deficient; but you think there is a sufficient number between these classes for whom separate schools should be established? —Yes. 17. You think there is a sufficient number of backward children to justify the establishment of separate schools in each of the four large centres? —Yes. 18. However idealistic our feelings may be, I suppose you will admit that we cannot give expression to them at once, but must go along slowly and in accordance with our means? —Yes. 19. Mr. Thomson.] On what do you base your opinion?—l say there are sufficient in the Dominion to have schools in the four centres on the witness of teachers who have these children in their schools. 20. Can you get vary teachers to give definite evidence on this matter? —Yes. 21. In legard to kindergartens, do you think they could be established in the country districts, or are you speaking of them only in connection with cities? —I think at first they would only be established in the cities, and in the districts where the people live in crowded places, and where mothers have not the time and do not look after their children properly. 22. I suppose the objection to country kindergartens would be the travelling by such youngchildren over long distances? —Yes. 23. I suppose it would be a very good thing for country children, owing to their isolated conditions, if they had these kindergartens? —That is right. Country children are barred from all social intercourse. 24. Mr. Davidson.] I understand that you are in favour of the establishment of kindergartens in connection with the primary schools in New Zealand? —Yes. 25. Have you considered the cost of such a reform?— Yes. I think, so far as trainingteachers is concerned, we have the training colleges established now-. Then there would have to be a supervisor or head teacher for the city. Then I think the students who had been trained could take separate kindergartens under her supervision. I would hardly like to make an estimate of their salaries, but as kindergarten teachers get less than £100, then I think £100 would cover that. 26. How many pupils would you allow to each teacher? —Not more than thirty. 27. And you think that each teacher should have at least £100 a year? —No, I said less than £100. 28. Well, just now the women teachers of New Zealand are crying out for higher salaries, and you surely would not ask any teacher who had spent years of training to teach for less than £100 a year? —I will take £100 a year, and I will say thirty children to each teacher. 29. At the very lowest estimate, then —at thirty children for each teacher and £90 a year for each teacher —that would mean £3 per child ? —Yes. 30. You said you would have them enter the school at three years of age : have you considered the number of children in New Zealand between three and five years of age? —Yes; I tried to reckon up the cost a little bit. I know it means a great deal, but I think it has compensations, and I think it would curtail a great deal of the money spent afterwards in reforming children, and so on. 31. Do you think that the people of the Dominion would stand this extra expense which I have reckoned to come to between £120,000 and £150,000 a j-ear, and particularly in view of the fact that you said in reply to a Commissioner that this extra money would be spent mainly in the four cities? —I do not think they would, because they do not realize at present what it means; but I think they would if they knew. 32. Would you confine this good work just to the four centres? —It is like this : I know things have to be begun; you cannot do them straight off. One thing I said was that I would advocate the establishment of kindergartens because of their influence. I think it would be well for the Department to have them in connection with their system of education. There will be kindergartens whatever we do, and I think they are worth having, whatever they cost. 33. If you cannot get these'real kindergartens introduced in connection with the whole of our education system, would you not introduce kindergarten methods into the teaching of all the subjects at present taught in our schools as a beginning?— That is my object. It seems to me that unless people try to understand the kindergarten itself, they do not realize the spirit of the principles of the kindergarten; but if they once are interested in the kindergarten, it is wonderful how quickly its influence makes itself felt. An instance came to my knowledge in Auckland just recently. Some Sunday schools started a kindergarten, and it has resulted in very many of the Sunday-school teachers in Auckland taking a greater interest in teaching on right lines. That is proof of the influence of the kindergarten.