72

G. H. BLACKWELL.

I.—9a.

Hon. Mr. Millar: The Inspector of Factories takes the place of the Chairman of the Conciliation Board. He has to do exactly the same thing—to notify the employer and the union to meet him before he can grant the permit. Witness: But he can grant it or refuse it. Horn. Mr. Millar: So can the Chairman of the Conciliation Board. Witness: Quite so. I indicated just now that we had a case where a permit was refused, but was granted afterwards. 17. The Chairman.] It is in the Chairman's absolute discretion, is if not? —Yes. 18. You said you would not give discretion to a Magistrate in another case: would you in this case?—lf it is a case of permit.—if it is not a case of breach of award. There may be some particular reason, though Ido not care to state what reason may appear to me. An Inspector may be disposed—no, I will not say it; but you know at the same time, at least you are conscious, that influence has been brought to bear on the Inspector to prevent him from granting the permit, 19. Do you think the Inspectors are liable to influences?—Oh, I think so. Good ones, I think 20. Anyhow, you think this provision an undesirable one? —I think some provision should be made for an independent person or authority to grant permits. The Inspector, I presume, would have an opportunity of opposing the application if he so desired. 21. Who would you suggest as the independent authority? —I do not know, lam sure. 22. Hon. Mr. Millar.] A Magistrate?— Yes, a Magistrate would do, as far as I know; but it should be an independent authority; and we quite approve of the Inspector opposing the application if he thinks it is not reasonable. Then, with regard to clause 53, I think I can suggest an improvement in that, I think that if you were to insert after "he has been " the words " during the previous twelve months," those two or three words would materially improve the clause, or else strike out "has been " altogether. The principle of this clause is the correct one; there is no doubt at all about it, and I speak with knowledge of the fact that if this provision had been law some years ago a great deal of the trouble that has arisen would have been obviated, and the usefulness of the Arbitration Act would not have been so heavily discounted as it has been. I think the clause itself is an excellent one, but I think that, strictly speaking, if a man is concerned in the dispute he ought to be engaged in the trade in which the dispute occurs. I can easily see that this "has been " would open the door for a generation back. A man may have been out of the union or out of the trade sufficiently long to have lost all knowledge of the details of the thing, and yet he may take part and foment'a dispute under quite different conditions. If you_ could not see your way to strike out "has been " altogether, I would suggest that a reasonable time to insert, at any rate, would be twelve months. If a man has been out of the business for twelve month's he does not know what changes have taken place. I think that, in the interests of unionism itself, that clause is practically the best clause in the Bill. I dare say most of you are aware that wo have had a fair amount of" trouble with regard to the Act, and we can easily trace the greater proportion of our trouble to causes that would have been obviated if this clause had been in operation. Under our award we have a committee appointed. We have never had a difficulty with our own workpeople, when the committee has met in the absence of the secretary of the union; but every time he has been there we have had difficulty and trouble. The official of the union, who is not employed in the trade at all, was the cause of our being cited before the Arbitration Court the other day, and the Inspector suffered badly, of course. He was wrongly advised, and the_ action of this official was entirely repudiated by the executive of his own union. On his own initiative he had taken steps to have" us cited over a matter that was provided for in the award itself. 23. The, Chairman.] But if you came out all right, what are you complaining of? —Well, we do not like being cited to appear before a public Court when there is no reason for it whatever. As a matter of fact, when we have been cited, the other side have generally bumped their heads. The conditions under which the workers work and the pay and all that are embodied in the award, and are the highest commendation, as far as our company is concerned at any rate, that I ever saw from any Court. 24 Is yours an involved or complicated award, that there should be room for any dispute— an award running into many details?—No; as far as the mill is concerned, we are under a different award—there is one for the mill hands and another for the tailoresses—and there are a good few details in the former. The Court themselves occupied two whole days in going through the mill and making inquiries and finding out all that they could. I suppose the Committee have seen the award. It would be in the Labour Journal, I suppose. 25. A copy of the award is posted up on the premises, is it not!—l really could not tell you now I have a" copy here if the Committee would like to see it. 26. I do not think we need go into the details: we are dealing, as far as possible, with general principles. Are there any other clauses you would like to call attention to?—I think that brings me to the end of the suggestions with regard to the clauses. 27. You claim to have had considerable experience of the operation of the Act of 1K94, ami its various amendments, since its inception? —Yes. - 28. Will you give us your opinion of the Conciliation Board and its work in its earlieststages I —We had not much to do with the Conciliation Board. 29. You never appeared much before the Conciliation Board?—No; it has been mainly the Arbitration Court. 30. You are aware, of course, that a few years ago provision was made by which, when a case had been lodged with the Board, it could be immediately passed on to the Court?— Yes. It was generally done, and—l am speaking now from memory—the case was never really fully gone into before the Board, because there seemed to be a determination to remit the matter to the Court. 31. You say there seemed to be a determination to ultimately remit to the Arbitration Court: was that common to both sides?--1 think so, yes, as far as my observation goes.