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28. And these mercantile houses have no remuneration for the services rendered?— There are indirect advantages. 29. You knew there were indirect advantages?— There must always be. You say to a man, " I will do that branch of your business for nothing, and it is understood if I do that you will do your general trade with me." That is the advantage. Surely it is an advantage to get a good customer. 30. Do you not know that for many years primage was refunded?—l have always suspected it, but could not say I knew it. 31. Were you engaged in your father's office in business? —No. 32. Were you not aware then of'the practice?— No. 33. Were you not aware that he was acquainted with all these fees and charges?— No. At that time the merchants were in a different position. They were masters of the position, and the unfortunate sheep-farmer had to get what terms he could, and the owner of the money was quite entitled to make the best terms he could. 34. Do you consider that these agency charges are immoral charges ?—I do not say there is anything immoral. 35. You said so indirectly. It is only the high character of the person you have referred to that defends him ? —The principle is immoral. I have noticed that since the matter was taken up these charges have been made against the mercantile community. 36. This is a question of immoral conduct. You admit that any secret charges are immoral ?— They are undesirable. 37. You read the newspapers, I suppose, pretty freely ?—lt is an unfortunate necessity. I avoid it as much as possible. 38. You remember the matter being discussed very fully twenty years ago, when the whole question of primage was set forth in the morning paper?— Yes. 39. Have you not been aware that this primage was refunded?—l knew it, but it did not suit my purpose to know, because I had such favourable arrangements that I did not mind if they made a few hundreds out of me. I was then acting in a private capacity, but now I am one of the directors of the Wairarapa Farmers' Co-operative Association, and my object in going on the directorate was to represent the producer. Having put myself in that position I consider that lam bound in honour to do all I can to fight their battles, and to set aside my private advancement. 40. You have admitted that during the last twenty years the refund has been going on ?—Yes. 41. Two years ago you became a large shareholder and director in a rival firm to that which had formerly done your business ? —I think it is four years ago. Ido not think it is a competing firm. 42. Is not the effect of this inquiry to be to use this Committee to advertise the Wairarapa Farmers' Co-operative Association's mode of doing business ?—Well, I suppose some people can always find an improper motive. 43. You have improperly been paying this immoral charge all these years, knowing that the public suffered from it ? —I got exceptionally liberal arrangements which paid me a hundred times over, and it paid me to keep quiet. 44. And you kept quiet ? —Yes, until it became a public duty. 45. You felt it to be a public duty immediately after you became a director and shareholder in the Wairarapa Farmers' Co-operative Association ? —My position became altered. 46. You felt it your duty to push business ?—lt is my business to do the best I can for the farmers. 47. That is, when your high moral feelings were stirred up ?—I do not know that it was. I endeavour to do my duty. 48. Mr. Hogg.] What you chiefly complain of is that the agent for the producer, being also an agent for the shipping company, is not endeavouring solely to study the interests of his principal, the producer ? —That is so. That is the principle. 49. You consider he is interested in keeping up freights as high as possible ?—Yes; or, in the reverse way, he has no interest in getting them down. Our agent's duty should be to get them down. 50. As a matter of fact, have freights been reduced during late years on wool and station produce generally ?—Of course, they have varied. How many years do you mean ? 51. Over a period of five or six years ?—There was a reduction last year, but it is impossible to arrive at what the freight is this year. As far as we can see, it has gone back to the old rates. 52. Do you think the producer has received any benefit from the reduction and the better class of vessels used?— No. I can say this, and am justified in saying ie: Some eighteen months ago I was appointed by the co-operatives as a delegate to a conference held in Christchurch, and I was appointed a member of a committee to meet the representatives of the shipping companies. We had arranged a conference with them, and, to my astonishment, one of the members appointed to represent the shipping companies said, " We could reduce your freights by one-eighth right enough, but the agents get that one-eighth of a penny." 53. Mr. Buchanan.] That is on wool?— Yes. He said we could reduce the freight by oneeighth, but the agents get that, and from that moment I registered a vow that they would not get it if I could help it. 54. Mr. Hogg.] You were not aware of the practice until that time?— The first time I became aware of the extent to which these various allowances had gone was when a man came here, without my seeking him in any way, and said to me, " If you let me ship your wool I will not only charge you nothing, but will give you £50 or £100 a year for the privilege of shipping it." It was very obvious to me then that he was going to get something good out of it. 55. Would you mention the name of the party who gave you this information ?—"No; that is a private matter. It was a direct offer to myself.