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tution the other day, and they expressed a desire to do the business in the fairest way possible; but they said if they stop this and make a charge for the work done, the man on the other side would not do the same, and therefore they were unable to do business in the straight way they would like to do it. So long as a charge is an unknown charge with our agents, it is impossible that the relations can possibly be what they should be as between agent and principal. The whole question is, whether some steps should not be taken to stop this practice. It is not for me to suggest in what way it should be regulated, or in what way the primage received by the agent should be dealt with. I understand that it is a matter of common rumour that the banks, to a very large extent, now break through the rule and return the primage. Of course, if they are asked about it they generally make some excuse, and do not admit it. But why should we have these practices ? Surely business can be done in a straight and open way. Ido not care if the ships charge 50 per cent, primage ; it simply means that freight will be 50 per cent, higher, and then the question would be whether we could get better freights. The fact that the banks attempt to keep this custom up in order to secure other advantages proves very injurious to producers. The agents have been bound strictly, perhaps by oath, not to return this primage. I have known a case where the primage was offered, and the agents have said, " I will not be a party to take anything. If I do, I shall hand it back to the person entitled to it." That shows that in some instances the arrangement has been broken through. 5. Mr. Duthie.] The question is resolving itself not into whether primage is a legitimate charge to make or not, but into a question as to the condition of- funds between the shipping agents and the shipper. You do not dispute the principle of primage now ?—I never have. Let them charge 50 per cent, if they like. 6. In your evidence, you say that at one time the shipping agents charged 5 per cent, for their services, when wool was £25 per bale?— Yes, it was paid for some time. 7. And you say the agents charge you commission at the present time? —Not commission. They charge for primage, and keep it. If they are only agents for the ships, we have nothing to do with it; that is a matter for the ships. But when a man is my agent he should have no right to take something which belongs to me without my knowing distinctly what he has charged me. 8. You first told us that of old they charged you 5 per cent, for shipping your wool?— Originally the charge of 5 per cent, primage, which we did not inquire into. 9. What I understood you to state was that when wool was £25 a bale you were paying the shipping agents 5 per cent, for their services ?—No: that the primage was 5 per cent. 10. What did you pay them for their services ? —Nothing directly, beyond the small port charges, and so on —some shilling per bale. There was no commission. 11. You pay no commission at the present time for their services ? —No. 12. Nor of old?— No. 13. Did you consider that they rendered services for philanthropic purposes?— There was nothing to be done. 14. But.they did render services; they received the wool from the colonial coasting steamer, passed entries, looked after the storage, and re-shipped it ?—That is done by other institutions, who charge 6d. per bale. 15. There are services rendered by your shipping agents such as I have mentioned. They have to pass entries, receive the wool at the ship's side, look after the storage, and get the bills of lading. Are they to make no charge for that ?—They charge Is. per bale. There has always been a charge for that. It is now 6d., and has been down as low as 2d. 16. Has that been the practice long?—A shilling a bale was the practice for a considerable time, but lately it has been reduced to 6d. a bale. I can say from practical experience of the matter that there is not much profit in it; but it is such service that an agent should render to his principal in connection with his other business. The charge covers the cost. 17. Then there is the work of shipping it to London and getting out the bills of lading?— Yes. The charges vary from 2s. 6d. to ss. for every bill of lading, out of which he makes a good profit. He charges each person shipping from 2s. 6d. to 55.; and Ido not know how many the ingenuity of a clerk could put on one bill of lading, but supposing he could put on one hundred marks, he would get from 2s. 6d. to ss. each. That is one of the small pickings which I did not refer to. 18. Two shillings and sixpence is charged for each bill of lading, independent of the number of bales of wool you may have on it ?—2s. 6d. to ss. They vary. 19. Has not a separate bill of lading to be got out for your wool ?—Not where all is sent by one agent. 20. What knowledge have you got of it all being put into one bill of lading I— l know it is the ordinary custom. I have business knowledge of the fact. 21. So far as I understand the position, bare cost only is charged; and you admit that so far as local services and the bill of lading are concerned, bare cost only is charged ?—That is so in some cases, 22. The general practice is bare cost ?—I would not say that. I say that in some cases Is. is charged and sometimes 6d. Sixpence is the bare cost for the clerical work, and so on. 23. Prom what source, then, would you expect these agency firms to be remunerated ?—lt is not my business to inquire how they should be remunerated. They are surely not so modest that they could not ask a price. 24. Do you think you are so simple as to believe mercantile firms keep up a large staff of clerks to do business and only charge bare cost for services rendered without any remuneration for themselves ?—lt is difficult to answer your question, because they have a lot of indirect remuneration. 25. I have traced the matter, and upon your own admission they only charge bare cost for these services ?—Some companies do. 26. The general practice is to do so ?—No. 27. At any rate, in your case they only charge for the bare cost?— That is what I get my work done for.