a—2.

1220. How far seaward was the line they wished you to take from the point where your road crossed the little creek before you reach Okaiawa ?—Quite 30 chains. 1221. Do you think that, if the line bad been taken seaward, you might probably have carried it without further obstruction ? —I think so, at that time. 1222. With reference to what you have said about the nearness of one road to another, we call your attention to the position of your survey where it crossed the Inaha Stream. On what scale is your map ? —Half a mile to the inch. 1223. If, then, you take 30 chains seaward of the point where the obstruction occurred, how much nearer to the other road which you just referred to would that be, than the place where you crossed the Inaha ? —Perhaps 10 chains. 1224. Then, as far as regards the question to which you attach importance, the two roads would only have been 10 chains nearer to each other by crossing that creek at the point the Natives wished, than they would have been at the point where you crossed the Inaha River. Is that not so ?—That is true; but a reference to the plan will show, from any point of view, the absolute necessity of bridging the other road at the crossing of the Inaha. 1225. Then, if it was a necessity to cross the Inaha at that point, what other than the mere difficulty of crossing the little creek was there, to prevent the line going on in the same direction, running west from the Inaha to the point of the bush about 40 chains from your block line, so as to keep as close as possible to the Native cart road, as advised by Captain Wilson: is the creek not a very small one ? —Yes, very small. 1226. What is the altitude from the level of the plain to the bottom of the creek ?—Trusting to memory, I should say about 60 feet. 1227. And at what altitude would it be desirable, under ordinary circumstances, to cross the creek: about 30 feet ? —On the level of the stream, if the ground would permit. Some 5 feet, or 6 feet from the water-line would allow ample margin for any freshes that are likely to come down the creek. 1228. There was, then, no difficulty in reducing the level of the plain to the level of the bridge ? —A bridge could be made to span the whole gully, but w rould cost thousands of pounds. To cross it at the place I chose would resolve itself into a cost of £30 or £40. 1229. It was immediately after this, was it not, that Titokowaru's people went to Parihaka ? —Yes ; the survey was completed the day before they left for Parihaka. Mr. P. Gr. Wilson examined. 1230. Tlie Commissioners.] You have heard Mr. Pinnerty's evidence?—Yes. 1231. What was your official position at that time?—l was assisting Major Brown, Civil Commissioner. 1232. Is there any statement you wish to make relating to what Mr. Pinnerty has said ?—I may say, in reference to that matter, that I got a message from Titokowaru, stating that he wished to see me. I saw him, and he told me he was in trouble about a road that was going inland. He said the road was coming in the direction of, and would go through, tho village where he was living. 1233. It was the road passing by Okaiawa that he was referring to, was it not ? —Yes. I told Titokowaru, " You need not be in trouble about that road, because Major Brown issued instructions to the surveyors that they were not to take any road through your villages." Titokowaru was perfectly satisfied with that. I then said the nearest road to be taken to Okaiawa would be a road line from Normanby to Kauae. Titokowaru said to me, " How near will that road come to my place ? " I said, " I cannot tell; but Ido not think it will come any nearer than your present path." That wras all the conversation we had at the time. After that, Mr. Pinnerty started this road-line from Waingongoro towards Kauae. I happened to be at Okaiawa a few days after the road was started, and Titokowaru said, " I wish that road not to come inside my paddock : I wish it to go to seaward of my paddock ; and I will send one of my men with you to show where there is a good crossing just outside my paddock fence, and the young man will also point out to you the burial-ground which I wish to be avoided." When I left Okaiawa, Titokowaru sent a man with me and pointed out this crossing. 1234. How far seaward of the present crossing was that ? —To the best of my knowledge, it was 6 or 7 chains. 1235. What did you think of the crossing that the Natives showed to you ? —lt appeared to me to be very fair, and that a bridge-crossing could be made, but not a ford-crossing, the banks being steep and narrowed in. On my way back to Hawera I called at Mr. Pinnerty's camp, and told him what was Titokowaru's wish. He then said he would go out with me and have a look at the place and the line there. I think it was on the following day that we went out, and examined the line of road and crossing also. Mr. Pinnerty told me he would take a day and examine the place carefully, and see if he could pet a good crossing there. A few days after that I went out again to Okaiawa. I noticed then that the road had been taken inland of the place Titokowaru wished it to be taken. I spoke of the matter to Mr. Pinnerty, and he said he had examined the place, but could not find a crossing to satisfy him, and he was taking the road so as to get the best crossing he could. I was not satisfied about this, and I then went to Mr. Cheal's camp and said to him, " Will you come up with me and look at the crossing ?" He came with me, and I pointed out the spot where Titokowaru wished the road taken across the creek, and asked him if he considered a good crossing could be got there. He said he considered a very good bridge-crossing could be got there ; but it was not so good for a ford as could be got at the other place. I asked him if he saw any difficulty in bringing a road that way, and he said there was no difficulty whatever. I came back to Hawera, Major Brown having arrived from New Plymouth, and I reported the matter to him. That is all I have to say in the matter, with the exception of its having been stated that I told the Natives to oppose this line being taken where it was jfc&ken. I deny that statement altogether, and wish to say something in reference to it. I think it was ,om itfce 13th March I went to Okaiawa one morning, and saw some Natives, about a dozen, sitting rdown jtfeere. Some of them had white bands around their heads, which is a sign that mischief is rfctmteniplated. I said to one of these men, "Where is Titokowaru?" He replied, "Titokowaru is inland." lasted, "What are vou all doing here?" I was answered, "We are watching for the

82