83

G.—2

surveyor to come, and when he comes we will take his instruments from him." I said, " You are going to act very foolishly, and I will go and see Titokowaru." One of them replied, " You will not be able to find him ; he is inland at a cultivation." I replied, "I will go and try to find him." I then went and found Titokowaru. I told him that some of his people told me they were going to take the instruments from the surveyor, and that I wished him to put a stop to it. He said he was very pouri about the road line being taken through his paddock, and that he had resolved to let his young men do as they liked. I said that I agreed with him that there was no occasion for the road-line to go through the paddock; at the same time, I did not wish his young men to interfere with the surveyors, and I wanted him to stop it. He agreed with me, and came down to Okaiawa to his place. I stopped there the greater part of the day, but the surveyors were not working in the direction of his place that day; they were working somewhere else. Titokowaru promised me he would not allow his young men to interfere. 1236. Did you report these circumstances to Major Brown ? —I did so, with reference to tha Natives. 1237. But as to the men who wore white bands around their heads? —I think I did not inform him of that, not thinking it of much importance : though I may have done so. 1238. Did you at that time look upon the road-line as a serious matter, or a trifling one ?—I regarded it as a serious matter, because it would involve the question of their cultivations generally. 1239. Do you attribute any of Titokowaru's subsequent action to his dissatisfaction on his part respecting the road ? —I think this was the first thing that turned Titokowaru against the surveys, as he was favourable to them before that. 1240. Did he not go away to Parihaka just after this ? —lt was while the obstruction was going on that Titokowaru left for Parihaka. The line had been completed through his place when he left. 1241. Did you have any conversation with him on the subject when he came back ?—No; the Natives had removed one of the surveyors before Titokowaru returned. 1242. Had Mr. Pinnerty been stopped before he came back ?—No; there was no one left at the place. He was stopped previous to Titokowaru's going away. 1243. Was that after he had promised that his young men would not stop you ?—I do not think that there was any actual stoppage, though they threatened to stop the work. 1244. Do you remember the night of Sir D. Bell's arrival at Hawera, and the conversation you had with him that evening ? —Yes. 1245. Do you remember what you said to him of your opinion with respect to the influence this road had upon the trouble which arose ? —My own opinion with reference to that is this: that, if the road-line had not been taken through there, Titokowaru would have supported the surveyors, and would not have taken any active part in turning them oil'. 1246. Then you think that the effect of the road being laid off in this way, changed the good .attitude that formerly marked Titokowaru's demeanour, into the unfavourable one he afterwards assumed? —Yes; but Ido not know. He may have been influenced by Parihaka. I had been constantly in the habit of visiting Titokowaru, and until that road was taken through he was verv favourable, and he agreed to assist in keeping his young men from interfering in any way. On one occasion something had been done to an iron trig, station, and I went to him about it. He asked me why I came to him. I told him that it was some of his people who were the offenders, and that, as he was a chief, I reported the matter to him in the first instance. He said he had not seen the trig, station at Okaiawa, and asked, " Why did you not get it from the people who have taken it ?" I said, " Before going to them, I thought it right to come to you, as their chief, and make a complaint, so as to get your assistance in getting it back." Ho said nothing more for some time, but when I was leaving he said, " See if you can get the iron trig., and if you cannot I will see if I can get it for you." A few days after that, I got a message from him saying he had got the trig, station pipe back, and asking that a man be sent for it. 1247. Up to that time he had rather assisted than otherwise, and, so far as you know, had shown no hostile attitude to the surveys ?—Precisely so. 1248. We presume that, during the frequent interviews you had with him, you had an opportunity of conversing with him about tho surveys going on at the Plains. Was he in the habit of making any objection about them ? —He spoke very little about them ; and, while in conversation with him, he never objected in any way. 1249. Did he make any remark at all about his lands, or talk about them? —No. 1250. What was his general temper; civil and friendly, or otherwise ?—Very friendly and hospitable. Several strangers had gone with me to his place, and he treated them very hospitably. He occasionally used to "chaff" me about bringing those people up to look at the land, saying he knew very well they were people who wished to buy and possess the land. .1251. Did that seem to create any hostile feeling in his mind ?—No. He used to be very friendly, and, if he had spirits, gave to all who came; he was, in fact, very sociable. 1252. Has he not some personal apprehension of being taken prisoner? —Yes; I think so. 1253. Does he ever come into the settlements ? —No, never. I met him once on the banks of the Waingongoro. He w ras anxious about some grass seed which was being weighed at Normanby, and asked me if I knew what it weighed. I told him I had seen tho grass seed weighed, but paid no attention to it. I said, "If you are anxious about it, come back with me and ascertain the weights." He said, " No, I don't care about going into the settlements." I told him that he was perfectly safe ; that no one w rould interfere with him, as any ill-feeling the settlers had towards him at one time had disappeared. He said he was afraid of drunken people and tuiuas insulting him. He did not make any reference to being apprehended or made prisoner. 1254. Are you aware that any tutuas had been in the habit of threatening him ? —I am not aware of anything of that sort having been done within the last two or three years. I believe that Titokowaru has an idea that the reward which formerly existed for his apprehension is still in force. 1255. Major Brown, in reference to the evidence of the preceding witness, said: Captain Wilson