63

H.—B

1807. Mr. Williams.] Air. AlcLeod, this is the list for 1877 of all new claims sent in in that year. If you look under the manuscript you will not find your name there ? —I do not know anything about that. 1808. I wish you to examino this paper. Every application received is included in this list, and your name does not appear in that list. You cannot find your name there? —I know nothing of that paper. 1809. This is the list for tho present year, 1878-79 ? —I have only the same answer to give with respect to that paper. I never saw it before. 1810. Mr. Williams: What I wish to show you is that your claim was received this last year. It is here on the list which was hung up for inspection. 1811. The Commissioner (to witness).] Was it objected to? —I never saw the objection list. 1812. [Objection list 1878-79 put in.] Does this list truly describe your qualification?— No. The one was a householder at the Kohukohu, and the other a ratepayer at the Bay of Islands. 1813. Do you know whether I objected to your name ? —I could not say ; I never saw the objection. 1814. The Commissioner.] It is evident, Air. AlcLeod, that your claim was received. It is evident, also, from the list of objections, that it was not objected to. Why it is not on the roll remains to be explained ? —That is not my fault. Mr. Williams : I can only refer you to my successor. I had nothing to do with the printing of the roll. Here your name appears on tho list of claimants published for public information. I had nothing to do with the printing of the roll on which your name does not appear. Raniera Wharerau sworn and examined. ISIS. I find, Mr. Wharerau, your signature, as attesting witness, to a considerable number of electoral claims. Do you remember attesting a number of electoral claims last year ? —Yes. 1816. AVill you describe the way in which those claims were filled up and signed by the claimants ? —The forms were given to mo by Patrick Lundon ; the names were filled in by Patrick. 1817. When Patrick gave them to you were they filled up in respect of having the names of the claimants attached? —The names of the people had been signed, and they wero given to me to sigu myself as attesting witness. 1818. Do I understand you then to say that you did not see the claimants sign their names ?— No ; I did not see them sign their names. 1~ asked Patrick, when a claim was given to me, "Is it true this man signed his name." He would say " Yes ; " and I would write mine. 1819. Did you not see one of them sign ? —I saw some sign. 1820. How' many?—l saw Nui Hare. I have forgotten tho names of others. 1820.V. Did you see as many as ten sign ?—Yes. 1821. Did you see twenty sign ? —I saw ten. lam not exactly certain. 1822. And how many claims do you suppose you signed your name to as attesting witness altogether ? —A rery many. 1823. One hundred ? two hundred? —I attested a great number. 1824. Would 203 be the number ?—Yes. 1825. And out of that number you only actually saw ten sign their names?— Yes. 1826. I can scarcely believe you have ever read before what you have signed your name to— " Signed and declared by the claimant this 22nd day of Alarch, in the year 1878, before me, Raniera AVharerau, an elector of the district." How came you to put your name so many times to a statement which is not correct ?—I did not quito understand the contents of the document or the attesting clause. I merely knew the place where I was to sign my name. 1827. Do you know whether you signed your uame to claims made out for people who were out of the district altogether?—l was not told that the people were absent. 1828. In reply to the Commissioner, Air. AVilliams and Air. Luudon each replied that he had no questions to ask the witness. 1829. The Commissioner (to witness).] Have you any statement to make in explanation of this extraordinary thing you have done; if so, you can now make it? —The nature of my statement is iv reference to the making out of these claims. This is the first time I have signed as attesting witness. I was under the impression that the Crown grants of the persons whose claims I attested were right. 1830. The Commissioner.] That is not the point. It is quite right to attest claims when you think the person has a good qualification, and signs his name in your presence; but it can never be right to sign your name to that which is not true. You have stated here in these declarations that the men signed in your presence. You told me just now that they did not do so. That cannot be right. You stated you saw about ten people sign their names?— Yes. 1831. AVas Heremaia te Wake one of them ? —No. 1532. Are you acquainted with his signature? —I do not know it. 1833. Do you know that he wrote his name there [form produced.] ? —I do not know whose handwriting that is. 1834. Is it not your own ?—No. Wiremu Katene sworn and examined. 1835. The Commissioner.] Mr. AVilliams, did you show Air. Katene a list of names ticked off by Air. Brown from the list of objections? —No, I have not shown him the list. I have mentioned it to him. Marked list of objections produced. 1836. AVhat I wish to know, Air. Katene, is tho residence of those men whose names are ticked off. Mr. Brown will show it to you, and I want you to state how far their residences may he considered from the AVaimate, and the position of the Natives. AVhcther they aro not considered as AVaimate Natives in speaking of them [Air. Brown pointed out the names referred to] ?—No. 1 (Paora Ngaio), lives about ten miles from AVaimate; a man of note —a chief. Tho place he lived at when his name was placed on the roll was Pakaraka. Housed to live with Air. John Williams.

Mr. McLeod.

March 25,1879.

Raniera Wharerau.

March 25,1879.

Wiremu Katene.

March 25,1879,