MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN

Archdeacon Maunsell. 12 Oct. 1868.

765. Do you know Mr. Harsant, the Resident Magistrate at Whaingaroa, and his knowledge of the language?—No, I know nothing of his knowledge of the Maori. 766. Then you consider Mr. Fenton's knowledge of the language to be sufficient to enable him efficiently to discharge the double duty of magistrate and instructor of the Natives in the nature of law?— Yes. 767. Mr. Domett.] Do you think the Maories have been ill advised in the late occurrences by disaffected Europeans? —I have no idea of this having been done; I don't think Europeans have had anything to do with the matter, Tamati Ngapora called in and examined. 768. Chairman.] What is your name and tribe?—l belong to the Ngatimahuta, 769. Where do you reside?—At Mangere. 770. Is it a long time since you left the Waikato?—Yes. 771. Have you frequently been in the habit of visiting Waikato?—-I have. 772. Do you know what were the thoughts of the people of Waikato about Mr. Fenton's; proceedings?— What I know is this: At first few persons were favourable to Mr. Fenton; the majority were unfavourable. Afterwards those who were favourable to him dwindled away. The desertion took place at the time of Potatau's first visit to Waikato. It was then that Te Kereihi left. 773. Give us the names of the Chiefs who were unfavourable?— The only one I know of who was favourable to Mr. Fenton was Te Kereihi. 774. Mr. Forsaith.] Did you not know of Waata Kukutai's adherence to Mr. Fenton? —I will notspeak of that; he is a young man. lam speaking of the older Chiefs. 775. Do you know two Chiefs, Po and Ruka; were they not favourable to Mr. Fenton?—l never heard so; perhaps they were. 776. Was Wiremu Nera favourable to Mr. Fenton?—He was of that party; he was favourable. 777. Do you know Takerei; and was he favourable?—He also was on that side, at that time ; on, the Queen's side. 778. Chairman.] Do you recollect Mr. Fenton's going to Waikato as Magistrate?—l did not see it, I merely heard of it. 779. Do you know whether Potatau was consulted about Mr. Fenton's going there?—l never heard that Potatau consented to his going there. 780. Did Potatau, as principal Chief of Waikato, consider that he should be asked to assent te Mr- Fenton's being sent there as Magistrate?— His wish was that such should have been done. 781. Were the Natives divided into two parties in Waikato, the King party and the Queen party, before Mr. Fenton went there?— The commencement was at the great meeting at Paetai, when Mr. Fenton went there, 782. How did the division arise between the King and the Queen party?—l did not know when it was first introduced there. I heard of it for the first time at the great meeting at Paetai, for I was residing at Mangere at that time. 783. Which party did Mr. Fenton join?— The Queen party. 784. If Mr. Fenton had remained at Waikato carrying out'his plans, would the effect have been to break up the King party, and that all the people would have become of the Queen, party?— There was great dissension among the people. This was the word of the King party; "Let him adjudicate among his own people; let him not come among the King party." And they kept to that. Takerei of Ngatimahuta was the only one on the Queen's side. This was what was said to Takerei, and to Ngatimahuta : that there would be no employment for him. Takerei, therefore, sat still. 785. Who were the most numerous, the King or Queen party? —The King party. 786. Were the Queen party sincere in their adherence, or did they only profess to be Queen's men in order to get pay and employment as Assessors?— They were not sincere. This was the cause? of their adherence. They had become acquainted with that plan. 787. Did the formation of two parties lead to trouble at the Waikato?—Yes. 788. When Mr. Fenton was removed, did that trouble cease or become greater?—lt ceased. 789. Would Waikato have been quieter without a Magistrate at that particular time ?—They became quiet when Mr. Fenton came away ; the quarrels ceased. 790. Would Hone Papita have agreed to have an European Magistrate in his part of the Waikato country ?—He would not have agreed. 791. If Mr. Fenton had remained in Waikato what would have been the effect ?—The only great word was, " There is nothing for him to do." 792. Would Mr. Fenton's remaining at Waikato have resulted in making the King party or the Queen party increase ?—They would have always disputed. 793. Could the Queen party have then made any head against the majority of the tribes ?—Their party was but small; they could but have travelled upon their own road, working out their own system ; they would not have been permitted to interfere with the other party- Such were the words. 794. If both parties had been conciliated, Would the result have been different ?—lt would still not have been good. 795. Did the great mass of the people at Waikato at that particular time object to having a Magistrate there ?—They were not in favour of it. 796. Do you speak of the greater part in Upper Waikato alone, or Lower Waikato too ?—lt was because of the setting aside of Potatau. ( Question repeated.) Both ends (both Upper and Lower).

Tamati Ngapora

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