BEFORE THE WAIKATO COMMITTEE.

F—No. S

that occasion had the effect of strengthening the views entertained by the King party, and increasing * the number of iis adherents ?—I saw a very false report of my speech printed by the Natives, and wrote to the Natives complaining of it, I believe my letter was printed in theHaeata. 1 sent also to Mr. Richmond an account of the whole matter in a private letter. In that speech I expressed the personal regard that I and my people had for Potatau, that we desired to be neutral in the matter of Kingship, that the " manao te whenua" (rights of property, as I took it) was secured to them by the Queen, and that they should not now injure that right by interfering with those who wished to sell. After I spoke, their Secretary Nepe brought me a fair report of the first part of the speech, omitting my concluding argument. 1 told him that the report, as far as it went, was good: I was therefore surprised to see ■afterwaids not that report, but one of their own composition. I have seen nothing of the King party since then, as they have no inteicourse with our pact of the River. 752. Does the Chief Katipa and his people belong to your district ?—He does. 753. Do you know whether this Chief and his people have in any way recognized the authority of the Maori King ?— I lis visit to Potatau 1 undeistood to be a mere matter of courtesy and respect ; but Ido not believe him or his people to be adherents of the King party. We must remember how far Natives will go in outward professions and civilities, even though intending otherwise. 754. Chairman.] Do you think that under proper instruction the Natives might be brought under a state of law and civilization ; and what is their general cap&city for adopting civilized Institutions?—l have a strong belief that the Natives can by proper management be brought to a state of law and order, and this without the exercise of physical force on the part of the Government. I believe also that there are few people more malleable in those matters under proper management than this people. 755. What will be the results of leaving the Natives in their present state, without taking steps towards directing them?—lt steps are not taken to stimulate and direct these movements, they will continue to be unsettled amongst themselves, and most dangerous to the settler. 756. What steps should be taken to avert the evil? —The system adopted by Mr. Fenton was, I think, admirably suited to this puipose. To give it, however, uniformity and constancy, it ought to be under the supervision of a properly qualified Officer residing in Auckland, whose duty would be to correspond with the Native and European Magistrates, to instiuct and guide those tribes who wish to initiate those instructions, and to diiect those Officers that may be sent to assist in the deliberations of their local or geneial Councils. I have always thought in reference to the King movement that it was the result of an undirected effort after law, combined with a fear of the increasing power of the white man, and a perception that though treated with courtesy and they were really excluded from even the least portion of legislative power. I have felt also that the true way to treat it would be to let it alone, and that it would die out of itself, and give way to the better organized and mote skilful arrangements initiated in the Waikato, 757. Will you give the Committee your views as to the experiment of introducing grass seeds into Waikato? —By gstting their lands under grass they might be induced to keep sheep and cows— become thus more fixed in their residence, and be induced to divide their properties by good fences. 758. Have you viewed Mr. Fenton's operations in this matter?—l have seen but little of Mr. Fenton's operations in this matter. At Kohanga the Natives have sheep which our School takes care of for them. They are very anxious to get some of their land under grass to meet the increasing demands of the "sheep. The Government has already aided them in this matter, and they have cattle now enclosed in a good fence. 759. Do you consider them to have been judicious, or the reverse ? —I can give no opinion as to his proceedings in these matters. 760. Were hiseffoits resisted by the Chiefs?—l believe but one or two of the Chiefs up the River were suspicious of some ulterior design. 761. What were the grounds of opposition? —They thought that a claim might thus be established to their lands. 762. Were there reasonable grounds of opposition?— Their grounds of opposition were not reasonable. 763. If not, how should they have been met and removed?— Patience and perseverance are golden rules in Maori matters.

Archdeacon Maunsell. 11 Oct. 1860.

Friday, the 12th day of October,MB6o, PRESENT: Mr. Heale, Mr. Fox, Mr. Williamson, Mr. Domett, Mr. Dillon Bell, Mr. Forsaith, Mr. Hunter Brown, Mr, Sewell in the Chair. The Venerable Archdeacon Maunsell called in, and further examined. 764. Mr. Forsaith.] Can you tell the Committee whether Mr. Fenton's knowledge of the Native language was sufficient for ordinary intercourse?— Certainly; I have heard him at Native meetings, he never seemed at fault in holding communication with the Natives; he has a grammatical knowledge ©f the language,

12 Oct 1860,

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