REPORTS OF THE WASTE LANDS COMMITTEE. (MR. O'CALLAGHAN, CHAIRMAN.)

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1887 Session I, I-04

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1887. NEW ZEALAND.

REPORTS OF THE WASTE LANDS COMMITTEE. (MR. O'CALLAGHAN, CHAIRMAN.)

Presented to the House of Representatives, Session 1., 1887, and ordered to be printed.

The Otago Centbal Eailway Construction and Extension Bill. The Waste Lands Committee have the honour to report that they have resolved to instruct the Chairman to ask leave to lay on the table of the House the evidence of Mr. McKerrow on the Otago Central Eailway Construction and Extension Bill, and to move that it be printed. 31st May, 1887. 4 MINUTER OF EVIDENCE.

Fbiday, 27th May, 1887. Mr. James McKekrow, Surveyor-General, examined. 1. The Chairman.'] It is the wish of the Committee to learn —first, the quantity of land which would be affected under the concession-clauses of this Bill; next, as to the quality of the land and its availability for settlement—how much of it is agricultural and how much pastoral land; will you be good enough to make a statement on both these points, and afterwards answer questions that members of the Committee may ask you?— Yes; from this Bill I observe that it embraces that portion of the Central Bailway from Taieri Lake to Lakes Wanaka and Hawea. The distance is about 110 miles. The Bill further states that all land within fifteen miles each side of the railway is to be considered in connection therewith. That includes an area of 1,820,000 acres, of which there are 170,000 acres of freehold and public reserves, leaving of Crown lands 1,650,000 acres. For the convenience of the Committee I have divided the lino into two parts. It will be more convenient to do so, considering the nature'of the land through which it passes. From the Taieri Lake to Clyde is a distance of sixty miles. Of Crown lands there are 1,030,000 acres. Of this area, 830,000 acres may be deemed pastoral, and 200,000 acres agricultural. Taking that portion of the land from Clyde to Hawea, a distance of fifty miles, there are of Crown lands, 620,000 acres, of which 570,000 acres may be deemed pastoral and 50,000 agricultural land. In both cases I estimate the agricultural land at £1 per acre; the pastoral land in the first division, from Taieri Lake to Clyde, at 12s. 6d. an acre, the division between Clyde and Hawea (pastoral land) I estimate at 10s. an acre. The whole cash value of both divisions, pastoral and agricultural, over the whole line, as above stated, is about £1,000,000 sterling. Next, as to the nature of the land. The railway-line begins at Taieri Lake, running through a large tract of level country called the Upper Taieri Plain, thence to the Ida Valley, thence to Mamiherikia, thence through the Gorge to ■ Cromwell, thence through the Upper Clutha Valley. These valleys are all very similar in respect to the quality of the land, being mostly of a gravelly soil, with a deeper soil along the margin of the mountain-slopes. Speaking as regards its suitability for agriculture, it might be described as possessing a light, sweet soil, that yields crops admirably in .moist seasons; but, as the climate of all the interior of Otago is rather dry, there is always an uncertainty of gathering in the crops from year to year. But wherever irrigation has been resorted to and there is water available the security of crops is a matter of certainty. Wheat will grow in this district and ripen well, in good selected spots, up to an elevation of 1,800 ft.; oats to an elevation of 3,000 ft. But as all the level land, or that which is likely to be cultivated, is under an altitude of 2,000 ft., that may be deemed to be the limit of cultivation. All land above that is purely mountainous country, being one succession of mountain ranges, the summits of which attain elevations of from 4,000 ft. to 6,000 ft. There is a considerable extent of mining going on over this district. Indeed, it may all be termed auriferous, because where there are not alluvial workings there are many quartz reefs, which will no doubt be worked in the future. One great drawback to the district and to its profitable occupation by pastoral tenants is the rabbit pest. This is being energetically coped with, but still there is no hope of the thorough eradication of the rabbit; so that a pastoral estate is likely always to be heavily handi-

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capped with the annual charge for rabbit-destruction. At present the rental derived from Crown lands on pastoral lease, which include all pastoral and agricultural lands already detailed, amounts in round numbers, to about £25,000 a year. 2. Mr. McMillan.'] Is that within fifteen miles of the railway?— Yes; I have marked the fifteen-miles limit on a map which I have brought with me. It is true it is upon a small scale, but it shows the limit pretty well. 3. Mr. Pyke.] Would Mr. McKerrow state whether, in one direction, there is any outlet at all to the country west of the Dunstan ?—The Clyde Township is the gateway into all that country. All traffic must go through the gorge at the end of the Dunstan Mountains through which the Clutha Eiver flows. The road up the gorge runs for thirteen miles along the sidelings and flats, and then opens out into the plain at Cromwell. 4. The Chairman.] No outlet at all ?—Yes; by the Haast Pass to the West Coast. 5. Mr. Whyte.] The whole rental, you say, is £25,000?— Yes. 6. Mr. Cmvan.] There is a provision in the Bill, is there not, that the projecting company shall have the alternate choice of blocks?— Yes. 7. The shape of the blocks is specified ?—Yes ; the blocks are specified not to exceed one mile frontage to the line : fifteen miles is the limit on either side. 8. The Chairman.] Will you state, if you please, what will be the effect of that ?—I think it is a very absurd arrangement, and will not be at all workable. 9. Will you give the Committee, a little more specifically, your opinion as to the effect on Government land of this limit, and the manner of laying off these frontages ?—I think it will not work, having one mile frontage by fifteen miles depth. The difficulty of working such a long strip of mountain land will be almost insurmountable, for it would mean great lumps of mountain and scraps of valleys in each block; it will be, in my opinion, quite unworkable. As to the effect it will have on Government land, if carried out to the letter it will render the land comparatively worthless, by depreciating its value both to the company and the Government. The features of the country are altogether too large for that method of cutting up. If it were a level plain it might do. I should suggest, if alternate blocks are to be given, that the frontage should not be more than half the depih. In that way you will get suitable blocks which can be worked advantageously to the Government and to the company. Having regard to the natural boundaries, sometimes the breadth of blocks might be only one-third the depth. I would lay it down as a principle that the blocks should not be more than half frontage to total depth. In some parts of this country it would be wise to vary the sizes. A similar provision is in the Midland Railway Bill. I went into the whole matter with Mr. Allan Scott in valuing the lands reserved for that railway. We found that the mile frontage was quite impracticable in mountainous country. 10. Mr. Cowan.] Have you considered the question from the point of view of opening up the district for settlement: whether it is advisable it should be given up for these purposes ?—That is a question of policy which I cannot answer. I have of course an opinion; but if the Committee will ask for facts I shall endeavour to give every information. 11. Mr. Whyte.] What is the cost per mile ? Mr. Pyke.] £5,250 per mile. 12. Mr. Whyte] Will it exhaust more than half that land ? Mr. Pyke : You mean what will be the proportion per mile ?—About one-third. 13. Mr. Whyte.] According to that it will take one-fifth of the country?—On the assumption that the railway is to be made at a cost of £5,250 per mile, and that one-third is to be given in land, the total distance being 110 miles, it follows that the company will get £192,500 of value. If you say £200,000, that will be near enough. Then the total value of the estate ?—I have stated it at £1,000,000. Being let at £25,000, there would be, according to your showing, a loss to the revenue of about £5,000 ?—Yes; it would depend on how it was selected. 14. What is the present cost of rabbit-extermination ? —I cannot just now state it in figures, but the pest has had the effect of ruining several of our best tenants —men who were in good position ; ruining them absolutely. 15. That shows that the rental is too high?—lf the country were again offered for lease tomorrow I think the revenue from it would be less than £25,000. 16. The Chairman.] Do you see any difficulty in the practical working of sub-clause Bto clause 8 ? —No; I think there is no difficulty at all. It is a very good provision ; but it is a provision that will rather tend to minimize the pecuniary advantage to the company : in other words, if the company were free to deal with the land, they could realize more money from it by sale than by leasing it, to be offered on the settlement conditions of the Land Act. 17. Mr. Bruce.] In the event of the line being made, will its tendency be, through a greater amount of settlement, to minimize the danger from rabbit-pest ?—I do not think the railway will have the slightest effect on the pest. 18. Not when the district becomes thickly populated ? —No; I do not think it will do much in that way; it will, of course, tend a little to increase population. I have been thinking that out, and I come to the conclusion that it will have no perceptible effect upon the rabbit-pest. I have already said that the land is not of very good quality. At present prices I do not think it would pay to grow wheat and oats there for exportation. The amount of produce would be, as now, confined to the local supply, the local market being chiefly the diggers and a few mining townships. Ido not think if the railway were there to-morrow it would make much difference. It is likely that the mining industry, which is the real industry of the district, would get a little stimulus, for the miners use a good deal of timber and other material, which is brought from Dunedin, and now costs a good deal per ton when it gets up there. The railway would therefore be an advantage to the mining community, and possibly quartz-reefs which are not at present worked will be worked when the cost of the carriage of material shall have been reduced. But as to the development of the

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agricultural country Ido not think it will have very much effect upon it. As to pastoral country* it will have very small effect in increasing the value, for these mountainous lands are not improvable, and you cannot well increase the produce by a railway ; the wool is already brought down cheaply by the return drays. 19. Mr. Whyte.] Are there any grasses ? —The mountain sides are beautifully grassed by nature with a variety of herbage, which has become deteriorated to some extent by the grass fires and heavy stocking preventing the finer grasses from seeding. 20. Is there no way of replacing them?—lf the runholders had a better tenure they would go in for more extensive subdivision. That would rest the country. The leases, although nominally for ten or twenty years, are actually only from year to year, for the Government can determine the lease by giving twelve months' notice. There was from time to time a great clamour on the goldfields for the making of this line and opening up these lands, so that the runholders have always had a dread of their runs being taken from them. I should like to explain this : that there is such a preponderance of hill country in this region that if you dissociate the agricultural from the pastoral country you will render the pastoral country worthless—in other words, there would be no low country to work sheep on if you diminished the winter-country. The measure of carrying-capacity is the stock you can " winter," not what you can " summer." 21. The rent, according to your calculation, is 2-| per cent, on the capital value ?—Yes ; but I believe if this land were offered for sale it would realize what I have stated. There is a great deal of capital in these stations. To get rid of the uncertainty with which the stockowners have been threatened they would gladly purchase the lands. On account of uncertainty they have not gone on with the improvement of the country, in surface-sowing and other ways, which they would be sure to do under a better tenure. 22. That is a point in favour of improving the tenure ? —Yes. 23. Mr. Pyhe.] A great proportion of this country is fit for settlement, according to your description of it : you speak of a fifteen-miles radius?— Yes. 24. Will you say whether there is more country than is embraced within that radius or limit which will be affected by this railway, and which the railway will be the medium of opening up ?— Yes ; it will open up a considerable extra area of Crown land; but you will have to deduct some country from the fifteen miles, for it does not lie within the same watershed as the railway. 25. You have explained the nature of the country as far as the survey has gone : beyond that,, are there not other agricultural lands that will be affected —the Pork Eun for example?— Yes;, there are four or five thousand acres there, also the Makarora and Matukituki Valleys ; probably the whole together would not be more than 20,000 acres. 26. But there are 20,000 acres there for settlement ?—Yes, taking in bush and all. 27. Will you tell the Committee what is the highest altitude at which grain is grown in that part of Otago? —In this particular part, Maniototo, they can grow it up to 1,800 ft., and they do it. 28. With regard to the fifteen miles, it is not positively a radius but a limit ?—lt is a limit, but being once mentioned it is apt to be taken as a direction when you come to interpret the Act. 29. Could it be reduced?—lt might be amended to the effect, " not exceeding fifteen miles on each side of the line of railway, and within the water-shed." That would make it all right. I have already said this mile frontage would work very absurdly. 30. I have your report here—the report of the Surveyor-General made in 1885 [C.-5.] You recommended that these lands should not be sold, but should be held in suspense until the railway is built. Will you tell me the meaning of the word " advanced " used in that report ?—Until there is more population, and until the conditions of the country should be altered. 31. You did not think that certain lands should be sold until the railway was extended to the district ? —Yes; I should like to explain to the Committee what I might call the reason of giving this return at all. It was obtained by Mr. Montgomery, and the direction given to me was not to draw up a general scheme at all, but to say what particular land would be suitable for agricultural purposes. Had I been free to give a general report I would, as lam now pointing out, have stated that it would be an unwise thing to give this land for purely agricultural purposes although it is agricultural land. This land must be associated with the high country if the most is to be taken out of the district. 32. You spoke just now of the " light soil: " will you give the Committee some account of the bulk of the crops grown there ?—Yes. On the Crown Terrace, at an altitude of 1,800 ft., they have grown wheat, for several seasons, as much as fifty bushels to the acre. Oats they have grown—l hardly like to repeat the quantity to the acre, but, according to reports, as much as 100 bushels have been grown to the acre. The Crown Terrace is a flat piece of land, of a virgin soil. It has grown crops for a few years, but I do not think it will continue to do so unless fertilizers are added. But, coming to the district of Sowburn, Maniototo Plain, a digger there brought in w rater from the hills, and gave the land a good soak to start the crops. I never saw finer crops of wheat, oats, and barley than he produced. The elevation was about I,oooft. These crops were grown on land that you would decidedly call "light." The soil consists principally of mica schist, which, where it is decomposed, is well adapted for growing fruit. The finest fruit in Otago is grown up in the Clutha District. 33. Mr. Whyte.] Can water be brought on to this land?— Yes; at the bases of the hills the farmer can take it in little streamlets from the snow-fed rivers. I might say that, in calculating the future capacity of the country, the question is not so much the nature of the soil, as the amount of available water and the facilities for bringing it on to the land. 34. Mr. Pyke.] There is a great deal of lime there ?—Yes. 35. There are what they call travatinos there, which have the effect of an open-air hothouse upon growth?— Yes.

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36. The effect of bringing the water on to the land was to stimulate growth ?—Yes. 37. You know the neighbourhood of Black's ; that, I believe, has been under cultivation for fifteen years ?—Yes. 38. They have grown wheat at Black's without manure ?—Yes. 39. Mr. Cowan.] With the aid of water ?—With the aid of water. 40. The Chairman.] How long?— For nearly twenty years.

No. 46. —Petition of Stuabt McDonald. The petitioner prays that he may be compensated for injury caused by the Government failing to complete purchase of land. I am directed to report that the Chairman be requested to move in the House that the petition be referred back to the Classification of Petitions Committee, as it does not refer to waste lands of the Crown. 3rd June, 1887.

No.—7l. —Petition of Aethue Eoscoe. The petitioner prays that his Crown-grant fees be remitted, as they amount to more than the value the land they are due on. I am directed to report that the Committee has no recommendation to make. 3rd June, 1887.

No. 40.—Petition of A. T. Campbell. The petitioner, having been ejected from a piece of land at Wanganui which he bought at a sale under the Fencing Act of the Province of Wellington, and for which he received a transfer from the Resident Magistrate, and of which he and hia father held occupation for twenty-four years, prays that, as such ejectment occurred through no fault of his own, he may be afforded relief. I am directed to report that the Committee recommends that the sum of £200 be paid to the petitioner in full satisfaction of all claims. 7th June, 1887. [Approximate Cost of Paper. —Preparation, nil; printing (1,275 copies), £2 Bs. Cd.]

Authority: George Didsbury, Government Printer, Wellington.—lBB7.