HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Waikato Times, Volume XIX, Issue 1576, 10 August 1882, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House met at 2.30. No-Confidence. Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the North Island Main Tiunk Railway Loan Bill. Looking at the great iinpoitnnce of the question of borrowing, he would depart from the course he might otherwise have followed on Government being placed on its trial, and would give some explanation of the bill itself. It would be most convenient to take this and the New Zealand Loan Bill together. In the Financial Statement the Government gave reasons showing the necessity for further borrowing, but it was necessary to reiterate them, as he mulct stood that was what was to be called into question. The Government had to consider whether it was better to bring clown one or two bilk, and after consideration decided on the latter com so. By that means the matter would be simplified, and a greater amount seemed for the m.iin trunk lines. They would bo better able to resist undue pressure for branch and other lines. He understood everyone thought that the Not th trunk line should be made, but the amendment intimated that he was mistaken in that view. The loan was necessary and reasonable in the colony's best interest The position of the colony when the Government had decided whether further borrowing should take place was this :— They had either to decide in the affirmative or else break faith with those parts of the colony waiting their time for railway communication. He ventured to say that the Public Works scheme, so far as it had gone, had been a decided success. The state of the colony in 1870 was very different from what it was now ; the taxation, so far as the customs duties, per head was less by 5s now than it was in 1870 ; the increase of taxation had been imposed on property, and did not affect the labouring classes, Supposing for argument's sake that the customs duties were increased, which hepositively denied, then its equivalent had been more than returned to the population in the shape of free education. Again wages were better now than hi 1870, employment was more easily got, and an enormous saving had been effected in travelling and housing. He estimated that saving alone at between £300,000 and £400,000. Then again they had settled 100,000 persons in New Zealand from the Old Country. The condition of these people and their prospects had been vastjjj^lmproved, and if they had done notlwng more that was a great work. Such being the past, there was nothing in the present to make them shrink from further borrowing so long as they spent it on reproductive works. They had about a million and a half expended on works that were as yet incomplete and unproductive ; they had a large number of men employed on these works, and a still larger number dependant on these men, so that if they threw them out of work, as they would have to do if no more money were raised, they would be facing a serious responsibility. Indeed, they had on hand only £435,000 to continue their expenditure on, and he hoped that broad fact would be borne in mind. That, with case, would carry them on for a few months, till the end, say, of February. The total number of men employed now by Government contraotora on Government works was about 3,000. With the number dependant on

these and the number required to supply them, there were at least 10,000 soula to be considered. Were these to be thrown out of work, and at mid-winter? In view of these facts Government had two points to consider. First, could the public works be carried on at a reduced rate of expenditure ? and, secondly, whether money could be raised locally > to go on with ? After careful consideration they found sufficient money could not be raised in the colony to carry on the work at even a reduced rate, and under these circumstances they felt they must go on the London Money Market. It was, of course, competent for Parliament to say all borrowing must cease, but before doing that they would be bound to say how matters were to go on. That would be the case of the colony if they ceased borrowing. In February next, or about tke beginning of winter a great number of men would be thrown out of employment, and of necessity a large drain of capital would leave the colony, As a consequence, wages would be greatly reduced, affairs otherwise paralysed, and a crisis would occur. They were told that if they delayed borrowing their credit would increase, and they would get their loans at a cheaper rate. The fact was any such saving could not in any way compensate them for the serious loss sustained in the meantime. Another argument was that a better scheme should be devised for making the fresh burdens fall on the class best able to bear them. He contended they should submit a scheme, and it would if possible no doubt be readily adopted, and no attempt made to delay the progress as was proposed. Regarding the Noith Island railway, it was argued that the loan should not be authorised until the direction of the line had oeen decided upon, and the difficulty with the natives overcome. It was not intended to raise the money till this was done. He submitted that the proposals of Government as a whole made the apportionment of the money as between the two Islands fair. If they did not authorise the North Island loan, the South Island would be putting forward additional claims. It had been objected that not more than half the money was to be employed on railways, and that this had always been the case. He would ask them to go through the schedules of these works, and say if there beany one that could be reasonably struck out. There was, fiist, the £200,000 tor native lands (they were already committed to that), public buildings £300,000, that was to last for 3 years They had been spending £10,000 upon school buildings, and it was wellknown every board was pressing for more than they got. Out of this sum £90,000 was engaged for lunatic asylums, so that members would see that there districts would be provided with less than they required. In these circumstances he asked members to say if their school and other buildings were not to be provided for. Without population their difficulties were bound to increase. A continuous and regular flow af immigration did not tend to reduce but rather, to steadily increase the rate of wages. It was nominated immigration that was provided for, which every man knew was the best class of immigration 1 He did not think anyone would object to the provision made for opening up Crown lands, as that was reproductive. Eegarding the gold-field provision, he thought that would be considered a reasonable proposal. Harbours were also an expenditure which would be defended on colonial grounds. The last item, the telegraph extension, was also a proposal which did not require to be detended. The rule laid down with regard to railways, was that they were to extend only the main trunk lines, and in the case ot bianch lines, continue those alone likely to give the quickest returns for their outlay. If the amendment had any meaning, it was that they were to have no loan at all, and that all public works were to be stopped for the present. Either it meant that, or it meant a ciafty proposal to get into office, and onoe in to go on borrowing as before. If it wns tiuc, as had been stated, that Mr Montgomery intended to continue the boi rowing policy, then it was difficult to understand what the amendment meant. He hoped an explanation on that head would be given by the hon. member, and that he would speak plainly when he came to move his amendment. It was a matter of regret that the notice of amendment had been so long delayed. The financial statement of the proposals of the Government had been before them for some months, and the Loan Bills were distributed two weeks. Indeed the contents of these bills were known when the Public Works Statement was delivered a month ago, so that there was no excuse for not bringing down the amendment weeks ago. Either Mr Montgomery's amendment meant that they were going to borrow, or that they were not going to borrow. If the latter, it was easily disposed of ; if the former, then the question simply was, Who was to administer the loans and spend the money ? Considering the unsatisfactory manner in which Mr Montgomery's friends had administered a previous loan, there could be no doubt of the verdict. Mr Montgomery, in moving "That the loan proposals of Government are not satisfactory, " combatted the statement of the Treasurer that the Loan Bills had been distributed some weeks ago, whereas they were not distributed until the Ist inst. That was a damaging statement, and ought not to have been sent broadcast over the colony to the injury of the Opposition. In the Financial Statement there was no mention of the two Loan Bills. All that was said was about one bill. The first heard of the two bills was in the Public Works Statement, and since then they had been kept back, which was simply a practice of the Treasurer, who always kept back his important measures until the fag end of the session. He objected to the whole of the loan proposals of the Government, and not to any one bill. They had been told that it was after considerable deliberation that two bills were decided upon . In the Financial Statement there was no evidence of a second loan bill, and as a matter of fact he did not beleived that until members had assembled in Wellington, and pressure had been brought to bear that two bills were decided upon. He denied that immigration would raise wages. In 1878-9 they had a large immigration, and he asked what was the state of the case then ? Why did not the treasurer compare it with that of two years ago instead of with the present time ? They had to vote money then to keep these men in work. That was not like immigration raising wages. What he wished to see was that the burden of these loans should be placed on the right shoulders. He had never given it to be understood that he was against borrowing altogether for the extension of their public works, nor had he ever objected to substantial justice being done _, to the North Island. Common prudence, however, suggested that the railway route should be decided upon before money was allocated for it. The North Island lines, it was simply said, was to be carried South, Again, in the South Island, he said, was a similar proposal. The line was to be taken from Blenheim south. Was that lino to be taken through one or two large estates only ? Was.that not the ultimate intention ? If it was, could it be aaid that these loan proposals were to be considered satisfac-

tory ? No provision whatever was made for the Middle Island line and the West Ccast line. This loan proposal meant £200,000 a-year for interest, and it was very necessary indeed that they should know how, and by what means that sum was to be provided for. The colony was just getting its head above water, and it was requisite that this additional weighting should be carefully looked into. The Treasurer should have asked for a moderate amount, say half-a-million, to complete railways and carry on till next session, and then bring down more elaborate proposals next year, when they were better prepared with their plans, and not have proposals for railways along routes of which they appeared to have but little idea. If they desired the efficient carrying on of the public works it was most important that they should not give too much money into the hands of the Government at once. He thought it would be far more prudent to delay these large loan proposals for a year. In the meantime the feeling of the colony would be ascertained, and then next session they would be in a position to shape their course accordingly. The Opposition did not wish to waste time over this debate, and he hoped, therefore, speaking for his party, that the debate would end to-night, or at latest, 10-morrow night. If they did not win, they would at least have the i satisfaction of knowing that they had done their duty, but he was perfectly confident that they would win. Mr Johnson followed Mr Montgomery, and spoke at some length in reply to him. Mr BUCHANAN moved as an addition to the amendment the words, "Inasmuch as it is not expedient^! ui ing this season to authorise any new loau, " and he spoke against any large loan at present. Col. Trimble spoke in favor of the Government proposals. The debate was interrupted by the dinner adjournment.