HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday.

Waikato Times, Volume 355, Issue VII, 22 August 1874, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday.

Mr Webb said he was returned to the House as a thorough, provincialist, but he had not long been in tho Assembly before he discovered the weak side of provincialism and its effect upon colonial affairs in the House, because he was firmly convinced that whatever might be done with the Middle Isbud, the provinces in the North ought to be abolish rd. He could not sec how the present propos il pt» i sibly affected the Middle Island. So far they vuro only asked to affirm a principle without becoming pledged to any details. The working out of the scheme could not be placed in better hands than those of the Premier. Mr Swanson said it appeared that the Assembly had the power of strangling the provinces, and was determined to do so. The hon member expressed dissatisfaction with the Government in not keeping their word. They had dropped the Education Act, setting the Ministers of the colony by the ears. They possessed £60,000 for roads in the North Island. It had been promised that a session would be held in Dunedin, when the limit of the powers of the provinces would be defined, but they had failed to keep any. He objected to the abolition of the provinces because it would deprive the country of the services of many men of ability and general knowledge, who were very useful in Provincial Councils, but who could not afford time to leave their business to attend to the General Assembly He commented at considerable length on the loose way of legislation in the House, and upou the absurd restrictions forced xipon provincial legislation. The colony was lai-gely indebted to Provincial Councils for the best legislation in the colony. The essence of the whole thing appeared to bo they were a power and therefore deserved to be kicked. Ho spoke at considerable length to show the efficiency of Pro- ; vincial Governments aB compared with General ' Governments. As an instance he quoted the obsti- \ natQ diMogard.oiinsjliviifitiQna.by the Agent-Gener,al

m ' London, and the failure of the Panama, Webb, and Hall and Forbes contracts, to the provinces would not have done wor.se and might have done better. The real cause of the poverty of the provinces was the way they were starved to death by the General Government.' As "an instance : If an offender was brought up ,at the Kesident Magistrate's Court and fined .£5, that went into the Colonial Treasury • if he was sentenced to a month's imprisonment, the province was compelled to board and lodge him. But for that House, they would never have been cursed with a native war and its subsequent legacy of debt and bad feeling betw ten the tho races, and th« growth of an expensive Native Department which had never been required. Mr Bryce said the last speaker thought provincialism perfection. It had been urged by several members, and practically admitted by Mr Sheehan that provincialism was the worst form of centralism and it was amply demonstrated by the fact that all the out-districts were dissatisfied. It might be surprise to the House and the country that what promised to be a calm session was disturbed by the resolutions, but he denied that there was surprise in any other light. No other question had so often come up — no other upon which men's minds had been so long and so irrevocably made up. If there was need to discuss the question now, and the Government ought to be the best judges of that, they were perfectly justified in dealing with it at once. It was idle to say they had to deal "with ; public works and that alone. He maintained that the imitation of that policy was looked upon as the first step towards abolition of the provinces, and now when they found that the provinces could not drag along without charitable aid if was high time to introduce an efficient and less humiliating system of abolition. The abolition of the Southern provinces must speedily follow those of the North, but that would arise solely because the South would find that the North was being better governed. Mr White did not attach much importance to ■""he ipsi'lutions, as he was certain nothing would come 01 them. If it wore possible for am thing to come of them, the present Parliament could not give effect to the resolutions. Many members now voting for the resolutions would be opposed to any measure based upon them. Although he would vote against the Government on this occasion, no one desired more to see them remain in power ; but he felt still bound to say that, in bringing down any important measure, the Government dealt too much in sops. He would impute no improper motives to the members for Taranaki, whom, he noticed, invariably followed the Government like lambs. Fortunately three of them could not be made Government agents. If a (proposal were brought down to disfranchise Taranaki, he would vote for it. He contended this was a blow at popular government; but he warned the Premier that, whatever was substituted, it must not be Government nominees. He insisted that the root of the whole matter was the Premier's anger at the member for Hutts speech, who absolutely disembowelled the Forests Bill. One great reason why the Government should not take over the provinces of the North Island was, they had work enough already. If members were so desirous for the simplification of Government by abolishing the provinces, why not push the argument to a legitimate conclusion, and abolish the General Assembly 1 They had Julius Caesar, why not have another Julius 1 He was much afraid the House was encouraging the Government to use its immense power tyranically. He believed the Premier had made a great mistake, for which retribution would overtake him. Mr T. Kelly defended the members for Taranaki from the selfishness imputed by the member for Rodney, whose ideas of local Government appeared to be to extend the province of Aucklandto Cook's Straits. It was a remarkable fact that all the members from the out-districts — Wairarapa, Waikato, Bay of Islands, Tauranga, and other remote places of settlement, were in favor of the proposal. The hon gentleman quoted statistics to show that Auckland being larger, received colonial aid the last seven years, and that so far from being willing to a tax for local service, a storm was raised against doing so, on behalf of the sick and imbecile. This was a sufficient answer to the assertion that the General Government first starved and then desired to kill. Mr Harrison opposed jthe change as too impoi-t-ant to make in such a sudden arid inconsiderate a manner, without having given any intimation of such an intent, and without the slightest public pressure. To use the Premier's own words, it was easy to pull down, but not so easy to build up. He was opposed also to the resolutions because of the expense. He had been favorable to another legislative experiment, and which he, for one, had endeavoured to make a success. Major Jackson would vote for the resolutions as the best for the colony, and the Norttt Island in particular. Speaking for his own district the resolutions would not affect it one way or the other. His district had been solely under the control of the General Government for a long time, and he must say it had given more general satisfaction than would have been the case if it had been in the hands of the province. He had heard the statement made that provincialism purified the atmosphere of the House. His experience had been that it was, practically, " You vote for my land bill, and I will vote for your railway. The Hon Mr Richardson referred to the difficulty occasioned to the General Government by Superindents, and quoted the words of the Superintenent of Otago, in which he said if the Public Works policy failed it would be solely due to the obstruction of such men as the Superintendents of Cantorbury Nelson, and Auckland. The short time the member for Selwyn was in office must have made him perfectly aware of the nature of the obstruction; in fact, the Government could not move without fiist carefully considering how it would affect this Superintendent t or that. Referring to the figures adduced by the member for Waikouati, he assured the House they were utterly unreliable, and he only wondered where the hon member got them. Up to the 30th June, 1874, the cost of supervision and office work upon the expenditure of two millions of money, excepting L 40,000, had not quite come up to 2^ per cent. As to the money squandered north of Auckland he would say that for the L 25,000 actually spent by the Government there had been constructed 36 bridges, with spans 30ft. and averaging 100 ft long- There were 20 smaller bridges, anil although the works were somewhat of a patchwork nature, they extended over 400 miles of road. The General Government were quite able to make one LI go as far as the Provincial Government. When membera talked of reducing the capitation tax from L 2 to 15s, he understood the Government had over servioes to equalise tho difference. As to prematureness of the resolutions : short as his political career had been, he could not but notice that a growing feeling was existing that provincialism ought to be done away with. He knew that was the feeling in Canterbury, and in every province of the colony he found that to be the general opinion amongst persons in the best position to judge. No matter what Government might be in power, the question would have to be dealt with — regarding tho North Island, at least. So long as the South could take caro of itself she was not likely to have her institutions changed. Thursday. On tho motion for the second reading of the Highway Boards Empowering Bill the Hon J. Williamson proposal an »mendment that the bill le r.aad that day six months. A discussion ensued,

and the amendment was carried on a division by 33 to 2. Mr J. E. Brown resumed the debate on the abolition resolutions. He welcomed the resolutions as a boon, and they would sweep away the bane of the colony. There never had been and never would bo^local government, and the doing away with provincialism would promote a unity of feeling among •the people, and homogeneity of legislation. If remote and interior settlements of the colony were to be' done justice to, they must get local machinery and localisation of revenue. He was prepared to give instances to show that in the province of Canterbury the provincial authorities could not go on with the work of constructing a bridge costing L3OOO up to works costing LI 40,000, without seekiug advice and assistance from the Colonial Government which was having engineers constantly travelling round at the request of the provincial legislature. A great argument in favor af the resolutions was the fact that they would place lai'ge national questions, such as education, and the control of the waste lands in the hands of the Colonial Government. The finances of the provinces threatened to subvert the finances of the colony. Last session the flood of loan bills brought clown by the provinces pressed the Colonial Treasurer on all sides. Fortunately the wisdom of the other House saved them. It was noticed that provinces who had squandered their land for 2s 6d or 5s per acre, constantly came down to the House for assistance. The sole reason why the South Island was better able to carry on her public works than the North was because she husbanded her land.