PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Westport Times, Volume VIII, Issue 1181, 2 June 1874, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

[CONDENSED FROM NELSON colonist.] Tho following are the principal points ill the final debate upon the Executive Council Bill:

Mr Adams, in moving the second reading, said the provisions of the Bill were copied partly from the Acts of 1870 and 1871, partly from the Canterbury Act, and partly from that of Executive responsibility was not on'y desirable, but in accordance with the spirit of tho Constitution Act : it was not a new idea, as was shown by perusing a dispatch from Sir George Grey to Earl Grey, dated 80th August, 1851, in which he expressed the opinion that it should be " left for the Superintendent and Provincial Council of each Province to regulate the extent of Executive Government to be constituted in each province, the rate of remuneration of officers, and the nature ot the tenure upon which they are to hold office ;" also that " the power of making laws for regulating the appointment of Executive officers should be conferred on the Provinces." It was absolutely uecessary to have an Executive, aud that that Executive should be responsible to tho Council. The Executive should be a Standing Committee of the Council during the recess to advise the Superintendent and carry ou the Government. Without an Executive it would be impossible for the Superintendent to prepare laws or estimates in accordance with the wishes of the Council, there should bo a bond of union other than that of semi-regal messages; if the Superintendent held a seat in the Council, he would explain all that was required, and then they would do without an Executive, if one mind was sufficient to carry on the Government of the Province. The Superintendent often represented only the minority of the electors of the Government, and one reason why great attention should be paid to the views of the Council was that it expressed the real opinions of the people. The abolition of the Executive would be no saving. It was necessary to have men of superior intellectual powers at the head of departments, and they should have seats in the Council to give information. The main question was whether the Executive should be responsible or not. lie had already noticed the provisions of the Constitution Act, and in his opinion no words could be plainer. The advice and opinions expressed in the despatches referred to had been carried out in that Act. The Executive was created by the Council, and should therefore be responsible to its creator; tho members of it should go to the Superintendent as delegates of the Council, and not come down to the Council as his nominees ; they would then be able to adjust the Government of the Province to the.satisfaction of the Council, and be a bond of communication between the Superintendent and the Council. If we had such a body no supplementary estimates would bo required ; the responsible Executive would tike care that in framing the Estimates every just want of the Province would be represented As it is now, when public works are asked for by members of the Council, they nro told that the Superintenncnt has appropriated all the revenue, and he paid no attention to supplementary estimates. In all cases where the Superintendent acted by and with tho advice and consent of the Executive the management of tho Goldfields was delegated to the Superintendent aud Executive. It was an utter sham to say that tho Superintendent acted by. the advice of his Excutivo when tho persons composing it were his own nominees ; if any one of them differed from the Superintendent, ho could Fay to them, " Go," and I will appoint some ouo who will agree with mo."

They were, therefore, driven to bolt their tongues, or else say what the} had to say and resign their seats. Tin Executive at present wore in a mosl helpless condition —not supported bj the Council, and at the mercy of tht Superintendent. It was impossible tc keep a proper check over the adininis Iratiou of the public funds if only onct in four years, at election times, en quiry could be made ; it was then nc time to discuss whether the Superiu tcudent had conducted the affairs o the Province in a proper, economical and effectual manner. But if tin Executive were liable to be constantly brought to book for acts of neglect then we might certainly look foi better Government. There would b< a better understanding with the Go verument, and we should then be abb to say good bye to the wretched past and take a first step to obtain a mon efficient and active Government. Th< expense of a responsible Governinen need not be greater than the present indeed, if the Executive were respon sible, they would be careful to curtai the departmental expenditure in ac cordance with the wish of the Council Mr Gibbs was not convinced tba all the good tilings would come out o the Bill that were claimed for it. Ii the event of the Bill becoming law th< Executive would, no doubt beremovec every session, and it would be neces sarv to have competent heads of de partments as well as political ones f hey ought to memorialise the Queei to nominate the Superintendent i they intended to force an Executivi upon him to coerce his actions, fo. which he would be responsible to tin people. Mr Bonse said there was great neec jf change. When the Superinteuden' >vas making his election tour he statec ;hat he intended to call the Counci ;ogether and choose an Executive This had not been done, and his Honoi lad committed a breach of faith leuce it was necessary to take othoi :teps. The Council had often met ind their measures had not takei jffect. By making the Executive re sponsible, the members of the Execu ;ive would go to the Superinteuden ,vith the Council's measures, and if hi lid not approve of thsm they couh :ome back to the Council, and if tin Council would not give way, then i should be dissolved. If the samt Council were re-elected, then tin Superintendent himself could go tc country. The past policy of the go vernment pointed to the necessity for responsibility. The Provincial Solicitor said there was no principle whatever expressed in the bill, it was silent as to the nuinbei of Executive members who should bold seats in the Council, and no sufficient reasons had been given for the introduction of responsible government. He had looked in vain for au expression of opinion on the matter from the public or the Press. He believed that nothing was further from the thoughts of the framers of the Constitution Act than the idea of responsible government, and the idea was contrary to the spirit of the Act. By fixing responsibility on the Executive, they removed it from the Superintendent, who could shelter himself behind the Executive. All that was necessary was the passing of a vote of no-confidence, and then the Executive would resign. It was not clearly defined whether the Superintendent had power to veto the action of the Executive or whether the Executive could overrule the Superintendent. If the Bill became law there would be constant changes in the Executive, and it would be necessary to keep a large permanent staff, and as the clerks of the departments would not be able to give all the necessary information, a permanent secretary and treasurer would have to be appointed as well as political officers. Mr O'Conor said the Provincial Solicitor could not have read the Bill if he said there was no principle in it. The third clause provided that they should hold office so long as they retained the confidence of the Council, and no longer. The Executive now occupied a very humiliating position ; they were called on to give advice on terms on which no legal gentleman would give it, and they had no power of enforcing the adoption of thoir wishes. As to public opinion, the Council should lead and not follow it. They wanted an Executive to carry out the wishes of the Council. What guided the Superintendent in the framing of the Estimates? Simply the reports of his subordinates. The members of the Council were not asked for their opinions as to the wants of various districts. The members of a Council were not now residents in a small radius, and it would bo inconvenient for them to be called together aften ; it was therefore necessary to have an Executive to carry out their wishes during the recess. 1 n the words used lately on the Licensing Bench, this Province wanted a resolute man ibout the house, and if they could not get that, they must try to put something in his place, and put an end to present state of things, which made the Province x laughing stock. If there were a (sponsible Executive, gentlemen would form an opposition, and mistakes would be pointed out. lie wished to see the Provinces of Marlborough, Nelson, and Westland united, but no province could jc asked to join Nelson now and drift ;o ruin. The present Pill would make ;ho Executive independent and able to iver-rule the Superintendent, while the latter had his remedy in his power of lismissing the Executive from office, subject to tie approval of the Council

who would thus be arbitrators between them. This would make the Superintendent as directly reponsible to the people as he could be made. He, Mr O'Conor, did not believe that any members would rush for office,' but he hoped men would be found patriotic enough to accept office for their country's good. The Provincial Secretary said that though the line of argument adopted by some members was that the Bill was not meant as a vote of want of confidence, yet the government had been i attacked and for acts done by a previous government. The Executive as a body were not opposed to the Bill, but he thought Responsible Government was not desirable for so small a body as the Provincial Council; it would delay public business, and take away from the Superintendent that responsibility which properly belonged to him as representative of the people. Responsible Government had been tried in Nelson and had failed. In Canterbury the Superintendent had been at war with his Executive, and that was not a desirable position. If the principle were adopted, two-fifths of the present Council must consist of men willing and competent to take office, as when one set of men were turned out, there must be another to take their

places. Mr Shapter supported the Bill, as the existing ordinance required amend, ment. He said an amendment was advisable in the Bill requiring the Superintendent to act with the advice and consent of the Executive Council ; the powers under the Goldfields A.ct could then be delegated to the Executive Government. Mr Maclean maintained that the Bill disclosed one vrey important principle—that of responsibility of the Executive to the Council, instead of to the Superintendent. For this reason, if for no other, he would support the motion ; for the pavement of the street was not so hard as would become the Government of the Province if allowed to remain eleven years in their present form or bed. The danger with a Superintendent and a paid nominated Executive was that the Province would be covered with a network of officials—he might almost say born in the service, from the Secretary at head-quarters to the lowest errand boy in any of the Departments ; and when that was the case the voice of the people was not heard in the election of a Superintendent, for such a machinery was too compact and well organised to admit of free action in the matter. Storms were necessary to aerate the waters of the ocean, and currents of air were required to ventilate the rooms in which we dwell, so, changes such as that contemplated by the Bill before the Council were, he thought, absolutely necessary to political health, and to break up the crust of officialdom. The Provincial Treasurer, Mr Shephard, said that wben Mr Donne's motion was before the Council he. had voted against a Bill being brought in because he thought it might be desirable to see how the Executive lately formed by the Superintendent would work. He had always been in favor of an entirely responsible Government, and he should vote for the second reading of the Bill. Mr Kelling thought the attempt to establish Responsible Government in the Couucil was like a boy putting his fathr's coat on, and saying that it fitted him. Ho should oppose the Bill. Mr Donne, in supporting the second reading of the Bill, said that he intended proposing the insertion of several new clauses. The division was—A.yes, 15 : Provincial Treasurer. Messrs Shapter, Corbett, Boase, Ivess, Maguire, Douuc, Rout, Adams,' Sharp, O'Conor, M'Loan, Baigent, Kerr, and Parker.— Noes, 6 : Provincial Secretary, Provincial Solicitor, Messrs AY"a3tuey Tarrant, Gibbs, and Kelling. '