THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Westport Times, Volume V, Issue 878, 24 October 1871, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

THE EDUCATION BILL. Mr Fox, on this order of the day, COct.ll,)being called on,saiditwas with very great regret he had to announce to tha House that it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with the Education Bill this session. He was fully aware of the great importance of the bill, and how desirable it was that the country should not be kept without a general measure on the subject. He was also very well aware of the favourable reception which the Education Bill met with on the occasion of its second reading, and on all other occasions on which it had been before the House. He could not help observing that the progress of the bill when in committee—only five clauses having been passed during two sittings—was not such as to give.any reasonable prospect of its becoming law during the present session, because the great struggle were ahead of them, Five clauses was all that had been passed, and that was all that had been done. If the discussion of the other important clauses, such as those referring to the aided schools, were to involve a similar expenditure of time in proportion to iheir importance he thought it would be agreed that it was hopeless to expect that the bill would become law this session. The time of the House had been, he must not say wasted, for that would not be parliamentary, but it had beenexpended in firing offblank cartridges. Of such a character had been the proceedings of no less than eight days of the sitting of that important Assembly, and when he said that in consequence of that fluency of speech, that objectionable loquacity, that fatuity of mind, had the legitimate business of the House heen delayed, and the progress of this important t measure completely stopped, he was only expressing the chagrin he felt in moving that the order of the day for the second reading of the bill be struck off the paper. The bill would be introduced again next session, and he trusted that by that time hon. members would have so blown off their steam, that the consideration of this and other large and important measures would have an opportunity of coming before the House and of being dealt with in the manner their importace deserved.

In answer to various inquiries and suggestions, Mr Fox stated that the Government had no intention at present of muking any further amendments in the bill than those already before the House. If they did find it desirable to do so they would take care to circulate such arneudments throug the country. The motion was then discharged from the paper.

. government provinces bill. Mr Vogel. moved the second reading on October 12. He said the Government had no desire to carry out those rapid changes contained in the allegation that they were going to sweep away Provincial Councils. The proposals contained in it were introduced honestly, with a view to carry out the intentions the Government had already described, those intentions being to make Provincial Councils less unwieldy, and more economical—to reduce their cost, which amounted to .£30,000; per annum.! As the Hotuae was already aware, the Bill proposed that the dissolution of the Provincial Councils should not necessitate the resignation of the Superintendents, and vice versa. The reason for this was that, it generally happened that after an' election for Superintendent an amount of irritation was left behind, which influenced more or less the election of members for the Council, and he thought that it was not wise that the results consequent on that irritation should continue to exist. The whole scope of the bill was rather to discourage the tendency which was making provincial institution's a reflex Or copy "of their Parliamentary/proceedings, and to induce them to confine themselves to proceedings of usefulness—that there should be less of adornment and more of utility. , Mr Curtis was disappointed with the bill, which he thought should have taken higher ground. The measure involved two great points: One was that it would prolong the sittings of the Legislature and absolutely necessitate the expenditure of a greatly increased amount for payment of members. Was the House prepared to

say that the Legislature thould sit for. Bix or nine months iu the year, for that ; was what would be the result if the functions of the Provincial Legislatures were so circumstanced as they would be by this bill. The General Assembly would have to perforin a greatly increased amount of work of the nature which was even now growing upon the House—work which was -of a purely.local nature, and should,be performed by local institutions. The Government were really abolishing Provincial institutions without providing anything in- their ' stead, the only point observed throughout the bill being the minor one of attempting to save expense. The Bill would have' the effect of destroying the independence of Superintendents of Provinces in the Colonial Legislature, and he did not think it was the desire of the House that the independence of any of its members should be sacrificed. : . He had a great distrust of portions of the bill, which he thought, as indeed he thought of the whole series was not sufficiently digested. He hoped the House would not pass the bill. He intended to vote against it.. ~ ... .' Mr Gisborne supported the gradual contraction of the duties of the- Provincial bodies until they were reduced to the form of corporations. • . \..* Mr Shepherd said it was not necessary, in considering the present bill, ministry who were now introducing a that, they should take any cognisance of the facttbattheinemberscomposingthe bill for completely abolishing provincial institutions were the same persons who had taken their seats on a pledge to continue their existence. To come to the merits of the bill, he did not at all approve of the manner of its changes, although he did believe that Provincial Councils should be somewhat placed in the position of a mayor and councillors. Their superintendent might be elected for two years, and their board, or executive, they might call them what they liked, Provincial Treasurer or Provincial Secretary, should be. only two in number, and there should be no power of dissolution. His own idea of reform in the matter was that they should establish shire councils for the administration of local affairs. The bill as it stood would establish the worst form of provincial institutions, and he therefore did not think that he should vote for the second reading. . Mr Gillies said if the bill really did aim at reducing the cost and maintaining the efficiency of Provincial Government it would have had his hearty support; if there were any portions of it which went in that direction he would support them. He saw that the bill did reduce the expence of elections somewhat, but otherwise the existing machinery was not lessened in . the slightest degree. It maintained its Provincial Treasurers, Provincial Secretaries, and expenses for survey and other departments. And as pointed out by the hon. member for Nelson, the Legislature would have to be done either by the Provincial or by the General Legislatures, but it would have to be done, and therefore the expense would not be reduced.

Mr G. B. Parker, approved generally of the bill, but hoped the Government would modify some of its provisions m committee, so as to do greater justice to outlying districts. Mr Swauson would vote against the bill.

Mr o'K.orke would move that the bill be read a secoud time that day six months. He looked upon the bill as a lamentable failure. They had been two months fritting away their time indulging in constitutional mongering when they should have been getting through some of the important business before them. He could not conceal from himself the fact that the present ministry had ridden into office as the champion of provincialism, and yet they had made proposals with reference to them that no other Government would have dared to do. He would move that the bill be read a second time that day sis months. Mr Reid seconded the amendment. He could see that the bill meant to conferupon the Government a despotic power, because if the Superintendent were a Government supporter, and the Council were against him, who was likely to be dissolved;—the Council or the Superintendent ? He thought it far better that the Provincial Councils should be left as they were. There was no doubt that thev would soon die out of themselves.' If the Colonial Treasurer would introduce a measure to give better local self-government, be would have deserved the thanks of the House.

Mr Wakefield supported amendment'. Mr Rolleston thought the bill dealt with petty details, but did not. go- to the vital part of their difficulties. The proposals of the G-overnment seemed only to bo a shuffling of the cards, so that those portions of the country that had managed their affairs in a careful and prudent manner would suffer, and would throw into the common stock the result of their prudence in past time. Their proposals would impoverish those who were capable of doing tho work of the country.aud leave th.e whole colony iu a state of prostration. He would oppose the bill, because ib did not deal with the matter in any'manner that would be ultimately satisfactory to the people. The Government .had pointed, but had not pointed far enough to the directiou in which a simplification of the affairs of the colo,ny should be brought about. So long as the powers of the provinces remained in their present indeterminate condition so long wonld there be a want of good Government in the country.

« . =v\ Mr Collins looked at the bill -as a l bare-facoxl .attempt to gain political power at the expense of the' Superintendents, who trilglit as well be nominated by the Government as occupy the position they would beinif-the bill were He ' hoped it would be thrown out.-..'' • • Mr Bathgate would ask the hon. member who introduced the bill, "Who asked, for this, .change?",, They,,had no evidence of discontent in the people; they had been met merely with aaaeW tions that it would be desirable because it would be more 'economical." "tie denied that, there would be any saving, nor had it been .proved that there : would be. He found from statistics' that the administration of the Province of Otago was conducted at a far lesa cost than was any similar amount of administration of the General Government. Mr O'Gonor thought it desirable that the Superintendent should ait in the Council of his province, and he looked upon the reduction of the members as a very desirable attempt to reduce them to local boards. With less members the Provincial Councils would have sufficient power to perform H their legitimate functions. He had seen in Otago, where the system of administration was highly extolled, a great waste of time and money on a superabundance of officials. The bill was not a perfect one, because it did not make provisions for out districts ; it left too much to town centres. He was prepared to accept the bill as an instalment of what they all desited, , and he hoped it would be permitted to be read a second time, so. that it might be moulded to their desires when in committee. ■Mr White had not studied the bill i very attentively, but what little time lie had spent in a perusal of its provisions had brought him to a feeling of i hearty contempt for it. He trusted , the Government would withdraw the ■ , billMr Williamson said he came down pledged to support the policy of the ; Government of last session, but when i he found an entirely new policy i brought before him he must hesitate • before he voted for that policy. He> ; would like to see the discussiou ad- 1 - i journedi i Mr Keynolds seconded the.molion. 1 Although a change was desired by the people and their representatives this I bill did not meet such a wish. The . best thing they could do would be to I give the Superintendent power to disi solve the council and give the council • power to remove the Superintendent i by a vote of two-thirds of the members. ; It was highly injurious to have the Superintendent and Council elected at • same time.

Mr Heeves hoped the measure would be withdrawn.

Mr Juliua Vogel said that without increased taxation he saw no way .of paying the Provincial allowances. The bill was a warning to the provinces, whether it passed or not, that it would be absolutely necessary for them to reduce their expenditure if they proposed to retain the functions which they had hitherto enjoyed. What he wanted to s »e brought out very clearly was, that the Government wished to say to the provinces, "You inust fiud your own expenditure ; we cannot find further means for you." The Government thought it was the opinion of the country not to see any violent sweeping away of provincial institutions. It bad been said by one hon. member that nine out of every ten of the members of the House would vote for the abolition of provincial institutions, He ventured to siy that nine out of every ten would vote, not for their abolition, but for their reform ; and that was the opinion of the people outside the House. When they brought down proposals such as the one before the House, they found that all those allegations about the necessity for sweeping away provincial institutions were only skin deep. But the sweeping away.provincial institutions was no part of the policy of the present Government. The bill be-; fore the House had been brought down to enable the making of a large reduction in the scale of expenditure of those bodies, and he wa& very sorry it had not met with such a reception as it would have been to the interest of the provinces at heart to accord to it.; At that late period of this session at which they had arrived "it would be folly to attempt to drive through any measure if it was the intention of any •section of the House to oppose it, and it seemed, their intention to oppose this measure. It was evident from the temper of the House that this bill could not be passed this session without a large expenditure of time, and it was only due from the Government to : say to those .'members who worked with them that it would be only a graceful act on their part to pay attention to the representations made by those hon. members on the subject of the bill, not only in the House but out of it. Therefore, if the adjournment was agreed to, he hoped the House would understand that its meaning was not that the Government, had made any admission of weakness, but as some objection had been offered by many members who support the Government, they bowed to thoso representatives, and were willing, if the motion for adjournment were carried, that it should be understood as meaning that the measure Bhould not be introduced during the present session. Mr M'Glaahan felt bound to say that he had been sent there by a constituency which desired some modification, and the modification he would like to Bee would bo that thoy should

be deprived of their- i legislative functions. .~; j ■..; i.-j Mr M'Gillivray thought the' bill went too far in one direction, and not far enough in another. It went too far in crippling.the poweps;of the Proyincial Councils while permittingttemi to remain, and not far enough in not abrogating these Provincial institutions , altogether. What we wanted was local self-government throughout the length and breadth of the land and such a system would be qui*e incompatible with the present form of Provincial Government. Mr Gillies thought members on all side should be gratified to see the General Government so ready to accept hints. The Colonial Treasurer had given the provinces notice that they must accept the hint ;*he hoped the General Government themselves would accept the very strong hint they bad received that evening. On the motion that the debate be adjourned until that day week, Mr Swanaon moved that the words, "" that day six months" be substituted.

Mr Wood thought'the Government, after their promise that the measure "would be withdrawn, should have moved that the order be discharged. The motion for the adjournment was then put and agreed to on the understanding that on, that day the Government will agree to the discharge of the order.