THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Westport Times, Volume V, Issue 863, 19 September 1871, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

THE EDUCATION BILL. The debate on the second reading of the Bill was resumed on Thursday Sept. 7. Mr Creighton said Mr Hall had charged some members with having urged the secular system. He was not aware up to that time that any argument in favour of secular education had been advanced. The hon. member for Timaru had argued in favour of a denominational system and he would read a few extracts to prove the evils of that system. [The hon member then read from a work by Dr Arnold, and from an educational report, proving the mischievous evils of denominationalisin.] He held that denominationalism would produce no less injurious results in this colony than he had proved it had done at home. He thought the House should pause before giving assent to a system that had given rise, to such manifold abuses iu England and in the province of Auckland. The Boman Catholic school p of Auckland had been under the supervision of the Catholic clergy

for ten years, and it came to this, that the Catholic laity rose as one man and rebelled against the conduct, of their schools by their spiritual superiors. He was dissatisfied with a portion of tho Premier's introductory speech, and with a portion of the bill, because be saw that the whole fruit of their victory over sectarianism in the provinGe of Auckland was about to be swept away by this bill. They talked of religious instruction, but he thought to use the Bible as a common class book was an improper use to which to put it—that the child was to read and deduce his own meaning. He thought it was not right at all that they should attempt to teach the bible in schools ; they all knew it was full of historical inaccuracy arid scientific fallacy. Besides it was this too common use of the Bible in the American schools that had given rise to the many religious sects which existed in America. He would expunge, the conscience clauses, unconscionable clauses they should be called, for there was no conscience in them. He approved of the Canadian system, which provided for the imparting of reiigious instruction after school hours and for the Bible being expounded 'by clergymen

Mr White was very strongly in favour of the aided schools, although he found it rather distasteful to many hon. members. He was not in favour of denominationalism, although he was in favour of the compromise offered by the bill. Many of those members who passed such high eulogies on the greatness of Prussia attributed that greatness to the educational system of that country, and, while objecting to denominational teaching, overlooked the fact that their system was a denominational one. He was opposed to the principle of nominating the board; he would have them formed on a popular basis—an electoral basis. Those who considered the bill a cumbrous one should peruse the Municipal Corporation Act of 1867. In opposition to that view he considered the bill neither costly or complicated. He quite agreed with the congratulations passed on the measure throughout the House. It was the most important measure ever passed in the colony, and the name of the present Ministry would be handed down on the pages of history. Mr W. Johnston entirely concuired with the opinions of the hon. member for rTimaru as to the aided clauses. He believed that no system of purely secular education would meet the views of the people of the colony ; it would never receive the support or acquiescence of the Catholic portion. The hon. member did not exaggerate the results of the secular system when he said it would produce intolerable tyranny. Some members had objected to the denominational system, and ascribed to it all the evils of the habitable globe. It was not the business of the State to support any particular creed. He was sure the universal feeling was that the bill would pay even as a financial speculation. He felt confident that the effects of the education conferred by the bill would be found to give the advantages of educated labour and increased moral strength in the people. Mr Thomson spoke in favour of the employment of the provincial system for the purposes of carrying out the machinery of the bill. He agreed with the Premier that the religious difficulty was external—it did not exist in the school. He thought if there was any country in which denominationalism would fail it was New Zealand, because the difficulties were greater in thinly-populated districts. He did not think the compulsory system would be at all successful. The hon. member went through the merits of the Otago system. He believed the system would suffer by the passing of this bill, but he would nevertheless support it, because he believed it would benefit the colony, particularly in those portions which were at present much neglected. Mr Pitzherbert intended to support the bill, but the hon. member at the head of the G-overnment must see that under the general expression of accord there was lurking a spirit of opposition. He could not pass on to the merits of the bill without expressing his high admiration of a gentleman whom he was sorry not to see in the House—Mr J. C. Eichmond, and of another late member—Mr Ball. The present was an instance that in saying a word that bore the germ of truth, however it might be regarded at the time, it will bud in the spring time and bring forth fruit, and we owed to-day the introduction of this measure to the efforts of the late member for Mongonui. They had been thirty years colonising, and they had utterly failed in their attempts to educate the people. He would now like to see a class of education open to the very poorest, that they might raise themselves to the very highest. He thought it was unfortunate to have school committees and provincial boards. "With these two bodies in existence, what was the minister to do with the staff of inspectors under him. He would warn the Premier that in those school committees he was rearing up an obstacle to the system he was teaching. He thought it would be much better that he should confine himself to thoso boards of education, which were amply sufficient for all local wanta. He saw no virtue in the provincial boundaries, and no reason why they should make these school boards coincident - with their boundaries. He thought members of Provincial Councils were not the persons to elect to the boards, which ho thought

should be elected in a direct manner by the people. He also iJhought females should be elected to these boards No nation could ever be great unless its women were educated ; if women had been educated as well as men in days past, the world would have been greater than it is at the present day. Another important point was that they should make provision for adult education. He did not wish the Bible to be read in schools, because he believed that instead of effecting the object that was proposed by the reading of it, the very reverse effect would be attained, for they should be very guarded not to teach the Bible by stealth. He thought the compulsory system would have an exceedingly beneficial effect throughout the whole country, if they should carry it out ; but it would have an equalH pernicious effect if they put it on the statute book and did not carry it out.

Mr O'Neill thought the appointment of the boards should not be in the hands of the Provincial Councils; they should be elected and he thought the elections should be done by meanß of voting papers. As to adult education, he thought they should also confer knowledge of agriculture, mining, &c. He thought they should take a leaf out of the American system of teaching.l There they established schools along railway lines, and carried the children to school free of charge. Even were the machinery of the bill large, as had been asserted, it must be remembered although that they were only as large in population as athird-rate town, they were a larger country than Great Britain, and so long as they had so large a country the machinery would have to be expensive ; but as the population increased, and works went on, and people were directed here by emigration and otherwise, the expenses womld grow less. Without they had large and extensive machinery they could not have so comprehensive a measure. The compulsory clauses would be found to be very difficult to carry out, and it seemed to him that they; had struck at the liberty of the subject; parents had no voice in the matter. The aided school classes he was strongly in favour of, and he hoped the Government would succeed in carrying them. As to the Bible teaching it was not to be expected that the children could interpret it any more than a savage could. He would give them an instance how it was interpreted by a Maori—and the Maoris were keeu and cunning reasoners. He was asked how many wives he had, and he answered, much to his regret, he had only four. Tbe minister told him it was against Bible teaching that he should have more than one. " Why," said he " did'nt you give me a Bible ?" " Yes," answered tbe minister. " Well," said the maori, I find in that book that Solomon had three hundred wives. " Kaapai Solomon." This was an instance how the Bible was interpreted. He would also refer to the statement of Mr Stafford, with reference to the expression of religious opinion in secular works. That instance redounded much to Mr Stafford's credit. The hon. member then read extensively in condemnation of secular education. He had expressed himself as a Roman Catholic, and he believed that he was expressing the opinions of the Roman Catholics as a body. He would give the bill all the assistance he could in committee.

At this stage Mr T. Kelly moved the adjournment of the debate till the evening sitting of next day, which was agreed to. ,

DEBATE ON REDUCTION OF GOLD DUTY. Wellington, Aug. 14. The House was occupied last evening, with a debate on the motion of Mr O'Neill, "That the export duty on gold be reduced to one shilling per ounce."

Messrs Shepherd, Haughton, and others strongly supported the motion. Mr Harrison opposed it, on the ground that the proper remedy for Goldfields' grievances was not so much the reduction of taxation, as the proper application of the revenues to public works, under local administration. Hitherto the Goldfields' taxation had not been properly expended, and never would be until local powers were given to the miners. He saw that out of fully £150,000 received for gold duty in Westland alone, hardly auy works of utility could be pointed out as having been constructed out of that money. The principal road works had been done by borrowed money, or on credit. The South-west Goldfields of Nelson were still worse off, for in the whole Grey Valley there were not three miles of road available and fit for traffic, and the other parts of the goldfields were equally without means of communication. If the goldfields' taxation wero given to the miners to spend on local works, there would be no cry against the gold duty, and he was sure that was the view of his constituents. If the proposed reduction were made, it would make it impossible to give any revenue to the local bodies. It would sweep away £IO,OOO annually from Westland alone. Mr White attacked Mr Harrison, and Mr Tribe supported him. Mr Curtis said that the Nelson Government had expended more money on the goldfields than it had received from them, and that there were 700 miles of roads and tracks made by the government. Messrs Vogel and Gisborne opposed the motion which was lost by 52 to 14.

the' late murder and fire raising at wangaehu. The trial of John M'Kenzie M'Donald, charged with the murder of Peter Phin, by setting fire to the Caledonian Hotel, at Wangaehu, near Wanganui, took place at Wellington, before Mr Justice Johnston, and, after lasting two days, resulted in a verdict of guilty. The prisoner was defended by Mr Travers, who in the course of his address to the jury said : —" Although a inan might, looking to his own circumstances, make up his mind to the commission of that which was a great crime—the destruction of hia own property with the view of defrauding an insurance office—and might contemplate it till it no longer presented the aspect of maliciousness which undoubtedly attached to an offence of that kind, he must be very far gone indeed to attempt by that means to destroy the lives of human beings. In this case it was not alone th<j life of a man which was placed in jeopardy, but the lives of four others. Let them see what was to be gathered from the conduct of the prisoner. He did not mean for one moment to exculpate him from setting fire to the building, and with a corrupt intention of claiming from the insurance company the money secured upon it by insurance. He had probably, after the fire had been set, attempted to save some of the furniture which was most valuable, but finding that, in consequence of the use of this chemical substance, the fire was extremely intense, and, reflecting that the rapid spread of the flames endangered the lives of others, he immediately took steps to prevent them being burnt. He rushed into the room of Fraser, and drew him out, shouting at the top of his-voice to give the alarm; and he must have used considerable exertion in shouting, as the storm was so fierce that it was impossible to hear persons speak. By that timethe staircase was gone and Mauion was prevented from getting downstairs by the approach of flames. There was clearly, however, time for a certain amount of deliberation on their part. There was not such extraordinary hurry necessary, and the whole party might have escaped had it not unfortunately happened that the man who was burnt was either in a peculiar condition of body, from the presence of smoke, or was so paralysed that he was capable of nothing more than merely standing upright. These appeared to be the main facts, and all theories as to these amounted to this—that the prisoner deliberately set fire to his house, probably in pursuance of an intention elaborated 'in his mind, executed with a degree of folly, as well as recklessness, which had probably seldom been exceeded—reckless with regard to the mode of setting fire to the building. Yet. the moment the prisoner became aware of the danger, he took active steps to save the lives of those who were in the house. The prisoner, however, was now charged with the murder of one of those persons, and there # was no doubt that, if a man had engaged in the commission of an unlawful act, and while so engaged caused the death of another person, he was, in the eye of the law, guilty of murder. Our laws, unfortunately, did not make those distinctions which were known to the laws of other countries in that respect. Perhaps the time might come when these matters would be looked to a little more closely. As it was, the existence of malice, either express or implied, was essential to the crime of murder, and where death resulted from any unlawful act which would not necessarily cause death, malice was implied. But he submitted that, - although that was the law, there was a very great moral distinction between the case of a man proceeding with deliberate intention to do iJI to some individual, and of a man without any evil intention doing an act involving the death of another. In passing sentence His Honour said: —Prisoner at the bar. After a most painful, painstaking, and lengthened trial, you have been found guilty by a jury of your fellow-countrymen of the crime of wilful murder. "Whatever may be thought of techincal distinctions of the law, there can be no doubt whatever that the offence of which you have been found guilty is one "of the very gravest and most serious that can be committed ,by a human being. The jury would simply have been trifling with their oaths and with the law of the land if they had allowed any by-considerations with respect to tbe different degrees of moral culpability regarding the persons accused of murder, to divert them from their plain duty of finding you guilty according to the law and the facts. They have thought proper to accompany their verdict with a recommendation which will be forwarded to the proper quarter—to bim who is in this country, with the advice of his Council, enpowered to use the royal perogative of mercy. It is not for me to say one word to you with regard to the probability of this recommendation being attended to, because it is notorious that the offence ot arson is one of the most prevalent throughout the country at the present time, and it is one of the most dangerous that can be committed against the peace and welfare of the community. In a country like this, where from peculiar circumstances in many places a very large proportion of the buildings are of wood and of slight material, the danger to human life from wilful arson is extremely great, and if need be, the higost rigour of the law should be put

in force iii order to put an end to such highly detrimental practices. I cantell you that you should for a moment consider that the recommendation of the jury is likely to save your life. I must point out to you that whatever people may think about the definitions of the law with respect to one kind of felony and another, I can conceive no more abominable crime than that, of a person who for the sake of a very small pecuniary advantage to himself, not only attempts to defraud an association such as an insurance association associations which are so useful to the community—but who, in doing that, shows an utter and absolute recklessness as to the lives of his fellow subjects, as you unquestionably did; and, so far from this being a light and trivial case of this description, it is perhaps as bad—short of the kind of case to which the jury have alluded —as it is possible to conceive. For you must have known that there were four men lying in the house which was set on fire, in all probability asleep and unprepared for what was about to come, and with but an accidental chance of escape, while you were using, or causing to be used, combustible material well known in this country and everwhere in respect to its inflammable and dangerous character. You must have known, if you had giving yourself the trouble to think, that the manner in which the place "was set on fire was such as to Tender the escape of any of those four men most uncertain. It is therefore •one of the worst cases—if every man had escaped it would have been of the highest -crass of arson. Even if not one man had had a single hair of his head singed, you would most undoubtedly have deserved and received a sentence of the highest secondary punishment known to the law—penal servitude for life. It is no part of my duty to say what force the recommendation of the jury will have. It is only my duty to pass upon you the dreadful sentence of death, and it is my duty earnestly to ■conjure you not to assume too hastily that it may not be carried into effect, but to use the best endeavors you can to make peace with ymv offended Maker, ere the time come when you may, by an ignominious death, be summoned to His presence." The sentence of the law is that you be taken to the place whence you came, and that in due course of law you be hanged by the neck till you are dead. And may Almighty God, in his mercy, have mercy on your guilty soul. The prisoner, who had remained standing throughout his whole trial, even When the Judge and jury were maintained one fixed attitude a the sentence was being delivered, ind for some minutes afterwards, until he was removed in charge of officers of the eaol.