WANT OF CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

Wairarapa Daily Times, Volume XI, Issue 3567, 22 July 1890, Page 2

WANT OF CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

SsooohljyMrßo3tA&m,M'H.R'

(Continued.) Mr Beethain—But I think I can show that the class of men who leave our shores am not those who come with money with the idea of settling, but those who were attracted here by the loan expenditure, and those who have beon hero for a long time, and, under the increasing economy of the inhabitants of New Zealand at the present time, find their assistance in distributing the wares imported and manufactured is not necessary. But I think that if peopia will not go to the trouble of making homos for themselves to settle the land, or turn their minds to industrial pursuits, iheyare notmuoh loss to tho Colony. Sir, it is difficult to know how this question of the settlement of the Crown Lands is to' be met, We are told by tho Colonial Treasurer in the Financial Statement that there is absolutely no money for the purpose. Wo are told by the honourable mem. her for Waipa—for this is ono fact, I supposb, which induced him to make the remark—that the whole tendency of tho Financial Statement is to a loan policy. There is no doubt that sooner or later tho money must be found, whether it ut from taxation or from loan, I should never contemplate a loan if we win raise the money amongst ourselves for settlement purposes, but the money must be found if wo are to do our duty properly to tho Colony, The leaderofthe Opposition has stated that the settlement of the people on the land, and not merely the alienation of land in large blocks, but the disposal oi it to born, fide settlirs, will be the one great means of restoring prosperity to tho Cjolony ; and the neglect of this, or the want of power to .appreciate it, was tho heaviest charge that . could be laid against -the present Government, I heard that statement from the honourable gentleman with very great pleasure, beoause, knowing as I did the present Minister of Lands has done his best in settling peoplo on the land, it proved to me that there was not much to be said against the Government. If the whole of the charges rested upon that, or if that is the chief charge that can be brought against the. Ministry, fchero is no serious chargeagainst the Government for we haw proof from tho Crown Lands Ijeport that the Minister of Lands has done his duty, and I do not see where the honorable gentleman found sufficient materials to Warrant his charge' against the Government,

MrKerr,--Hashed,oneit? Mcßeotham. I think he has. I do not intend to tire the House by by gqins into figures: the figuresareat the disposal of every honorable members ; but the Crown Lands Report shows that the Minister has done his duty, and has not only equalled, but surpassed, what was done by the leader of the Opposition during his period of office. 'At the same time, I would wish' to give prcdjt whorp credit is due, and say that-I think tlie late Minister of Lands did his best to settle tlio lands, and in many cases was very successful.'': I' supported him gladly whpn ho jntrOjluppc) and pusfied forward,the system of settling lands by special settlement. 1 cannot say the system of special settlements is one that I would use as the best system ayajlable; but I have felt that Ministry after Ministry has failed to grasp the necessity for'surveyinjj lands and giving pyery'tpn a. chance p,f occupying it who is willing and able to do so, ■■ Year after year thp estimates for surveys are cut down, In my distript men haye been begging for land, but fqr want pf a sufficient survey staff they hayo been unaljle to get It Mr Kerr.-Whose fault 13 that? Mr Beetham,—The fault of various Ministries, Ido not say it was especially the fault of the loader of: the Opposition, It was his fault to a certain extent. It was the fault 'of tho Ministry oefore hjm, and toj|sa extent It is the fault opine Mirijstry now on these benches', The, survey stafi has not been properly 'constituted; they have not had sufficient power to carryW the wQrk'that'ifecijs ]b be done. They have been • surveying largo areas'of land m thd district from which I 'opine, 'ana* within tho "list twelve montljs over ope liiiijdred. thousand acres have been surveyed and properly settled; and yot theie are large areas tlioro' unsurveyed, That is a, fact, ami any honorable

igentleman who.makes himself acquainted with the.'Forty-mile Bash will'see that there is profitable settlement going on there, and that it is a good field for Betthment,' There are other items, in the 'land policy that porbaps on' this occasiona it is hardly worth while going intjPTbereis.tbe unsatisfactory position of the ballot system. '. .That, to a . certain extent/ has been' caused by , the fault ,L have; pointed put—tho ; insufficient survey staff. If i sufficient' number of seotionswere placed in the market at one. time, thoro would be'yno unseemly 'rush,', ',. as thoro ■-.has ./been i.-to > secure 1 ■: sections, .An honorable member has pointed out to us one occasion when 1256 individuals, lodged,s2B applications'for 24 sections of land,' As the ; honorable member for Wairaea says, .. that proves the land'must be' very' i: good, and, I may say, there is plenty . more good land in the sarije place, w\ Then, the mining industry,*! think, has not received the' attention;it requires. I know that the Minister of Mines and Lands would gladly do more, but he is prevented by the want of money, Still, though money cannot be found,'there is no doubt that • by a proper system of inspection and of tuition, and of making known the advantages' of New -Zealand as a. ".( mininc; centro in the. Old Country/^f"" very great deal of good may be done. The. mining districts South Africa, I may say, js now receiving.muoli less : , ; ~..■. support from investors. Well, lf.we are catefnl, know our own interests, and push them, there is no doubt New Zealand will take the lead in tho mining countries of the world. Attention has beon drawn tons, and I am glad to say that, although the mining exhibits in the Paris Exhibition were not all that oould bo desired yet, bad as. thoy were, they did attract considerable attention in the French capital, and many remarks wcroniade upon the mining of New Zealand. Sir, outside the • Government, the settlers are trying to work to their own advantage. They are trying to work out the future of the colony. Who 'that follows the ', ■■ enormous expansion of the frozen meat industry can fail to see that it is gradually opening up to tho farmers and settlers of this colony prospects for tho profitable settlement of lands that have hitherto been actually denied them! The profitable settlement of the land will depend vorfc,, rauoa upon tho frozen meat iudusfcrf* and upon the dairying industry, It is our duty, then, in every way to push on those industries, I think that in this respeot the. honourable member for Wairarapa has done his duty ns far as the province of Wellington is concerned, and in other parts of New Zealand wo see the same energy displayed.' If frozen ' meat. keeps at anything like its 1 present average price, laud can bo profitably occupied that will keep a ' sheep and a half to the aore, and in that case there ate many millions of ; acres of land in New Zealand now - unoccupied that could be made to pad* ,• ' and would carry a large population!* 1 So far as I could follow the trade—- ' and I took considerable pains to do so ' when I was in the Old Country-I see 1 no reason why New Zealanders should ' not feel confident that they can 1 depend upon an averago price of not ' less than 4Jd the year round; and if : ' that is so a largo extent of land can 1 be profitably occupied, The Amen--1 can export of meat is at the present 1 time our chief competitor, but events 1 are proving that .the population 1 America is overtaking, to a certairfA 1 extent, the possibilities of production \' : in that country, , The growth of ■ Indian corn, which has for many 1 years enabled enormous numbers of cattle and pigs, and so on, [ to be kept, is not bo easy as it ' was, The land is becoming partly 1 exhausted; and not only that, but the good lands have been occupied, and, to a certain extent tho inferior lands have now to come into occupation; , so that I think we may not have so much reason to fear the future cotnpetitionof America as we have had in the past. The honorable member ' 1 of Awaruamadea point about the,-, exodus of the people from our shores. Spf Now, I think a great deal too much has been made of that, and I think that those who so porsistently draw attention to it, in the newspapers and in the House, aro not doing themselves credit and aro not doing this colony justice Why should wo try to foul our own nest day after day//. and year after year? We do nor good to ourselves, and wo do an infinite amount of mischief, In the Finnnoial Statement the Premier shows, distinctly that the loss is merely nominal, that, in fact, our population continues to uurease, I havo a- return in my hand on the question of tho "unemployed," Ido not know whether it has been quoted in the House, but I will make a few quotations from it that will perhaps bo of interest, In the'year 1886, I,3oo"unemployed" were receiving Government pay; in 1888, 805; in 1889,384; and in a part of 1890, 56. They were all paid off last February, and at the present time, owing to. the so-called exodus of tlut population, we have no" iroemployed"i& the colony, At any rate, we'can. say this: that every man who wishes to find em,, ployraent isablo to doit, so that tho exodus of a, certain class of workingpeople, and'of the' class indicated, distributors, has not really done us very much harm ; it has, at any rate, . done the working-classes no harm, If we can only do as the leader of tWjl Opposition did, meet, this question fairly, and provide funds for the in, traduction ofimmigrants of the class he introduced, tveneed not fear- the future. But, to do that, it is absolutely nepessary that "Veaiis should be found to do it as early as possiblo. The question of defence is one I would refer to very shortly. It is well known by many honorablo members, that I have always taken great interest in the question of federation, as intimately connected with that of '; defence. I was much disappointed af hearing t|ie leader of the Qpnosj, tion making the remarks, ho did, an,d ridiculing tho efforts of Major-General Edwards. \ cannot think that Major-General Edwards \w in stigated by the niotives which tb, honorable'gerjUenjan gjvo hjqi gredj for, . ■■ • Mr Btillance.—He wrote a letter and,said that the Chinese Admiral had hoisted his flag. ■.''■• Mr Beotham—lf the honourable - gentleman will reflect for a moment J* he will find lhafc in politics, whether \ in this Houso or iti othpr systems of may exist, pMtldians'arji always hoisting'danger-flags in every direction to'carry their foiut,'and it" ' is possible, that . Major-General ' • Edwards may kaye been justified, ij he felt the peopje 'of ; .theso, colonel didnot'rcalise the dangers 'to' whicfi ;theporbnieswero exposed, \n- ao.ti„ .OlL) as< lie did, With, respect to t n W question of federation and the'send s ' of delegates to Australia, I do tr a that delegates-cwIII bo sent, alihoug 0 do not think tho souding of doles

Will result in our joining in a acli'omb of Australasian federation.' Mr Fish.—Then why send delegates ? Mr Beetham.--Yct I think it is noccssary, inhabiting an important colony in these seas, that we should keep onnolves in touch with men in .other colonies and ascertain their opinions, and I think that the advico and assistance we may he aula to offer from our standpoint to the delegates from the colonies wilt bo very useful to them in considering this question, I congratulate the Dnfence minister and the honourable member for Selwyn on tkoir notion at the Conference in Melbourne I think thoy were quite right in not committing our colony in any way to federation, I look forward to a very different federation in the future. I know that .there are many members of this House who do not think that theism has come; but the, day of tfto federation for the whole of this Empire, which is bound together by consanguinity and interests, —a closer federation than wo have iioiy—is what will come in the future. Mr Fish.—You include Great Britain? Mr Boethatn.—l iucludo Great Britain, Tho federation of the Empire as a wholo is a very much greater pjint than federation of these Australasian Colonies, I regretted very niuch'to hear tho honourable member for Waitotara make tho remark he did a few nights ago, when he said the page of history ho wished to look forward to was the page of independence, Whatever happens in the future, I trust we may never think of separating from tho country that gave us birth, the country that has the power and the will to assist us.

Mr Fisli.-Twenty.fivo years will aeo it,

Mr Boctliara,—Twonty-five years if wa are true (o ourselves, will nol see it, Beferenco nns mado by the leader of the Opposition to the necessity of money being provided for opening up Crown lands and settling the people on the land. Wo have the question boforo us, suggested by the Financial Statement, that we should not strike off the primage duty but should continue it. While our finances are in such a state that we are not able to provide for the deficiency that exists on the Laud Fund, but must still all it to be increased, I trust wo shall not do such a suicidal thing as to strike off the primage duty, I nm told that several of the largest merchants have been communicating lately with members of (his Houso, requesting hat the primage duty should be kept on, and even increased; feeling the necessity for providing money; As a Freetrader it is not likely I should bo found voting against tho primage duty, It is not a Protectionist impost. The primago duty is levied on all articles for revenue purpose, and that is a system of taxation of which I approve. The primage duty is indicated as beiug necessary for two very important purposes : one is the _ providing of a fund for increasing our Bohool accomtuo. dation, and for increased nc. acmmodation also in lunatic asylums Wo are spending at the present time enormous sums on education, nnd it is our duty, while spending these ums-toffhich everybody contributes through the customs revenue and in various other ways,—to provide that the means of education shall be placed as nearly as possible at the command of those who require it. It is our duty, as far as we possibly can, to build schools whero they are required, I am prepared to defend'tho property tax when thb time comes, We arc not in a position to lose L 355,000 a year. I congratulate honourable members on tho present position of the Frisco mail service, We shall at last bring' Brother Jonathan to his bearings and make him pay his fair share towards it. I believe the Government of Now South Wales are jaking the right course in that matter, I find in the financial statement that a very small sum is put down for that service—l presume only sufficient to carry out the contract Ml November next. Just a few words now about the .Railway Commissioners, The administration of the railways has resulted in an increaso of revonuo to the colony during the present year of over £03,000, Mr Fish—lt is mainly through the Exhibition. \„ Mr Beetham—lt may be to some but I do not think that alone accounts for tho increase in revenue, Mr Fish: L 30.000 of it.

Mr Bectham—Well, even allowing £30,000; there is still an increase oi over L 30,000. I deprecate, and always have . deprecated, in the strongest possible manner the political interference that for many years has been carried into the policy pursued by the railway authorities, It is high time that system should cease, It is quite possible, I admit, our present Commissioners have yot much to learn, Mr Fish—A great deal moro to unlearn. Mr Beelhara —I I jke thorn to be earnest mon, They have already done a great (leal of good, and 1 believe that in future, if they are allowed fair play, they will prove themselves worthy of tho important trust they hold. I thought it would be necessary that the report ot the Commissioners,should be placed upoD the table of this House, that honour- ; able members should see what they ?*& have dono, and what may be do.ne in ' the future. I notice it is not on the tablo, I think it would have been well if many honourable gentlemen who spoke severely of the conduct of the Commissioners had reserved their judgment until the Commissioners' report was before thQm j and I trust that when the report is laid on the table I shall still be able to support the efforto of the Commissioners, and that other honourable members will give 'thoin n fair support until they have heen proved unworthy of their position, Their administration, as far ■ as | ha,ve followed it, bears very favorable comparison with that in other colonies. With th.3 consent and approval of the House, a very ]arge burden lias been placed upon looai districts through depriving them of the poworof rating Crown and native land, In the North Island the striking off of this item from the revenue hitherto received by those districts means a very considerable loss to them. A The Crown lands in many parts of the ' . a.nd in many plaoes they have to be - passeil to'reach'settled districts, lis it fair that those settlers who are willing (o take upon their shoulders the task of pushing into the wilderness, who are the pioneers of settlement, shoujd, begr the' c.b'ief part'ohh'e coot of open; }ng up the lands of the Grown ? I think . jt it not fair, and I very much regrof J? that only a very small sum is placed on the present estimates for the purpose assisting local bodies as Crown and Native land rates. I nm awavo ihat Native laud rates may havocauscd, aad.

havo caused a certain amount o f jealousy on the pare of members from tho South Island, they felt that thoy were subsidising the North Islaud: but I think it should bo understood that in theso matters jt is not our duty to look at mere localities, Where tho public good is to be secired by tho sottlonicnt of tho land, money should bo found for that purpose, whether it is in the North Island or in the South Island. Thero is only one ottar subject that I wish to. bring before tho House, and that is tho subject of borrowing. It a borrowing policy is to be adopted in tho future—and I think that the Financial Statement points in tho direotion of our having to borrow before very long to carry out tho necessary works—l trust the House will approaoh the question of borrowing fairly, and that only those roads and railways will be constructed which will tend to the advnncementofsettlement, and that weshall,foroncoin our lives, pull together, without allowing petty local interests to interfero, nnd try to work for tho publio good alone,