MR BEETHAM ON THE NATIVE LANDS DISPOSITION BILL.

Wairarapa Daily Times, Volume VII, Issue 2075, 22 August 1885, Page 2

MR BEETHAM ON THE NATIVE LANDS DISPOSITION BILL.

(Continued from our last,) The. Government can, as 1 take it, by this Bill, whatever the decision of the Board may be, say to them, " You shall not sell more than ,40 aores at & time, as our regulations would not admit of |t; and you shall riot sell to this man or the other. You must sell subjeot to the regulations, or not at all," I do not say the honourable gentleman had that idea in his mind ; but we should be particularly guarded in giving to any Native Minister the. power to decline or accept the advice given by these Boards, or to interfere with the natives in any manner in the sale of their land, The honorable gentleman said that every man of eminence is in favor of this system. I presume from that, I am not a man of eminence —that! am a man of inferior capacity:

and the same is the case ivith every honQjable member who has spoken On this Bill- except the honorable gontleman himsfclf; for 'they have, one and all con- ! demned it. Still, I think that the honorable gentleman will find, that if this : Bill becomes law—which I do not think : it will—that those men who may' not be _! in his idea men ! of eminence have taken the correct view of this question, instead of the reverse. I will now just shortly refer to the honorable gentleman's conduct as Native Minister, It has been said before—but. I think I shall be right in repeating'it—tliat no man had a finer opportunity of distinguishing himself than' the honorable gentleman when lie took office as native minister, following, as he did, the honorable member for Waitotarn, That honorable gentleman had, in my opinion, in some cases pressed rather heavily on the Natives. 1 could not help , thinking so when lie discontinued the pension, or whatever it might be called, of. the chief Ropata. Again, when he took away the pension from an old native in my own district-Rctimartarwho had ever been a great friend to the Europeans: I thought he acted Very 'tor.: justly and severely in that case. I thought also, that treatment of that sort was not the treatment to endear the Natives to the European people. But that honorable gentleman had taken such steps that the Natives were thoroughly imbued with the opinion that it was their duty, and' that the Europeans of New Zealand and" the Native Minister had determined that" the Natives should travel on the straight path, so far as the law was concerned, with their white brethren in the colony, and itwas.fasfc coming to . that desirableconsumiiiation, ■ If the honorable gentleman who is now Native Minister had pursued the same course it would have been well for himself and well for us all ; and I am grieved that it is not so—sincerely grieved. I should have been only too.glad to have seen the Native Minister take a different attitude towards "the Natives ; but he allowed .himself to be influenced by the Natives to an extent that I should not have thousrht possible from .what I considered to be the salient points of his character. I did not think it was possible that he could have taken such a course as has abundantly been proved he did, by the notes that have been produced. I should not have believed he could, with the full knowledge of the circumstances incidental to the passing of the North Island Trunk Railway Act, have gone amongst those Natives in the centre of this Island, and made the statements lie did, when he must have known that the South Island members, and many of the North Island members—among them myself—were induced to vote for the North Island Trunk Railway under the certain impression that the line would not be made unless either land were cededby the natives, orsuch arrangements made for a fair purchase of land as would, to a certain extent at any rate, assist in recouping the colony some of the expenditure incidental totho construction of that line. That was my view; and I think it was the view of this House. If the Hon, the Native Minister had been firm with the Natives, and at the same time just to them, he would have found that they would have agreed with that view. The honorable member, however, certainly, from what appears on these notes, told them that there would be no taxation for the future, and that, although the land would be reserved for a distance of five miles oil either side of the railway and no outside Europeans could buy it, they would have full control over that, and that it would not be subject to any taxation whatever. Well, it has been pointed out that the Crown and Native Lands Rating Act did not affect that region. Of course, we know it did not ; but at the same time the circumstances were bound to alter, and there is no doubt that when the railway is made through the centre of the North Island, and when roads are made there, the Natives in other parts of the colony would justly ccmplain of our action if we excepted that district from taxation and made the lauds in other parts of New Zealand subject to the operation of the Crown and Native Lands Rating Act. l ean see no fairness in that at all; and I am convinced thatthe House, when itapreedtotheexemption of these districts—West Taupo and East Taupo—and these parts, never for a moment contemplated that, assuming that these districts wore placed in the same position aB other parts of New Zealand, they should be exempt from taxation. The Natives naturally complain of and dislike taxation, and the Hon the Native Minister appears to have some ihow of justice from the Native point of view for saying to the Natives that he did not consider any land that is not in profitable occupation should come under the provisions of the Crowi; and Native Lands Rating Act. One of the ohief reasons that caused ine to vote for that Actwas this; that, although the operation of it, to thoso Natives who did not consider the matter fairly might seem to be unfair, it is not unfair so far as the general progress of New Zealand is concerned, including the Natives themselves. If the colony i 3 to make roads and rail- ' ways through Native lands, it cannot be expeeted to do it without receiving some contribution from the land, by way of taxes or otherwise; and the Act specially provided that unless there is some road through a district there shall be no taxation j «o that if the Natives only consider the matter carefully, they ehould be able to understand, that unless an additional value has already been placed on their lands by roadworks constructed out of money borrowod by the colony, or raised as rates from the adjoining districts—unless that money has been expended to their benefit, no taxation attaches to the land; and any taxation that may bo imposed on the land, however it may accumulate in the course of years, will be recouped to them by the additional value given to their lands by roads made by the colony or by the local bodies. It has ' been said that this ought not to be a party question ; and I, for one, should be very sorry that it should bo considered in that light, I think I.have already shown by my action—by the action I took against Mr Bryce'B Bill when he introduced it—that I did not consider it a party question, and I certainly have no intention of doing so now; but at the Bame time, 1 think, as has been said already in the course of this debate, that the Government have hardly taken a fair course by telling their supporters thatthe support of this Bill is a party question, and by telling many members who are in opposition in many points against them that it was not a party question, That does not seem to me to be a fair procedure at all. I think it should be considered as a non-political question on both sides of the House, and tnat members should be allowed to take whatever course they think fit. I will not follow the member for the Eastern Maori District at any length, because the hour is now late; but the honourable member sajd something ..about Committees, " quits a different system—.that of the Native Runanga—that he talked about. He also entirely misunderstood the action taken by the Europeans concerned. He says, for instance, that eteam navigation is carried on by Committees, and that nearly all the prooeedinpa of European trade and commerce are carried out by Committees. It is not oommittees but companies, he means; and if he had mentioned the word it would more readily have explained his views to the House, I should like to explain to the Maori members that,' assuming that what they want is to be placed in tho same position a« Europeans, there

is nothing to prevent them forming their committees or companies,and dealing with their lands or any other objects as they think fit. They have the same power to form committees that wo have tor taking any action that may bu ueceasary, I always did vote for thesenrilegalisation of Native Committees, and I always considered that as very useful, because I believe in bringing the Natives face to face with the proper understanding of the laws passed by this House. That will do a great deal of good in the tuition of the Native race as far as our law is concerned: and I always .did volt with pleasure for the establishment of Native Committees.; but 1 am certainly not one, who would think it advisable to give them any real legal status to decide points of law without some reference being necessary to the existing European Courts. I think the honorable member for the" Northern Maori District said he did not believe at all in the Native arrangements, and that he approved of matters relating to the Natives being dealt with by Europeans, as being the superior mode of obtaining justice. No doubt the Natives have every reason to complain* of the aotion of this House in the numerous measures it has passed" dealing with Native Lands. I have seen many unjust cases through the action of the .Judges of"'the Native Land Courts, caused, perhaps,: from want of knowledge of the circumstances. When ten grantees were appointed, when the land was passing.through the Court, it often happened, merely through good-* nature, that the owners of land have agreed to a Native's being included in the Crown grant who really had no title at all. :1 have seen cases' myself where the only title, the only right that anindividual afterwards included in the Crown grant had,., was, perhaps, the righfc;tp shoot or suare pigeons • or /other birds on a few acres, or the right to gather karaka berries on a few trees. 1 know that by our Native land legislation we. have given Natives' with'-only inferior rights such as I have mentioned, a full right to claim a tenth share of some of the most, valuable blocks of land in New Zealand; and in many cases individuals who had 110 right to the land at all have been enabled by our legislation to dispose of a one-tenth interest in valuable blocks. This, of course, is an anomaly we should not for a moment permit. Wo have endeavored to an extent to modify that evil ,by including the whole of tho Natives in the grant; and tho result has been, as the honourable member for the East Coast has pointed out, that a very large number have been appointed: In fact we have gone into the other extreme. -There is one point more to which I should like to refer, and that is, assuming this Bill to pass, is the question to be referred to the Native Affairs Committee or'not 1 Some, I know, are voting for this measure with that idea; and I think the Hon. the Native Minister should give us a distinct understanding, when he replies, whether that is the intention of the Government or not, because it may materially effect the issue. 1 myself would like to see this question—that of the system of dealing with Native lands—as the member for the Eastern Maori District suggested, referred to a Royal Commission. The same system as this should be applied to the local-government arrangements, I think that both these questions should be referred to Royal Commissions, who, having time at their disposal, might really go into the whole of the question, .and suggest some equitable means of dealing with the Native lands as a whole. 1 should gladly Bee the Government take some step of that kind. If this Bill should by any means go into Committee, I shall give it my careful attention; but if it should come out of Committee as it now stands it will be one of the most serious obstacles to tho advancement of the North Island of New Zealand, and of the South also.