PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuapeka Times, Volume VI, Issue 284, 10 July 1873, Page 6

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Toesdat, July 1. The thirty-second session was commenced today. There was a full attendance of members and the public. On the Council assembling, the Clerk (Mr Sessions) read his Honor's proclamation convening the session, and the return of members elected, after which he intimated that the first duty which devolved upon the House was to elect a Speaker. Mr Tolmie rose and said : Mr Sessions, I have to propose that Mr William Hunter Reynolds be called to the chair as Speaker of the Provincial Council. Mr Reynolds : Mr Sessions, I feel highly gratified at my name being proposed, but from yarious reasons which I need not go into here, it is quite impossible for me to fulfil the duties of Speaker and to attend to my other duties as welL Therefore, while thanking the hon. member who proposed me, I must respectfully decline. I considerably regret I cannot accept the high and responsible office of Speaker of this Council ; and think that under the oircumstances it would not be desirable for me to accept it, seeing that my other duties will call me away from here for some time. Mr Toliiie : Mr Sessions, I wish to withdraw the proposition I made, as Mr Reynolds has declined to accept the office. Mr Bastings; I have much pleasure in proposing that the hon. and gallant member for Clutha, Major Richardson, as Speaker of the Council. I am sure that if the hon. member will accept the position of Speaker of this House, it will meet with universal approbation, and the approval of all sides.— (Hear.) I may say that I took upon myself the liberty of speaking to he hon. member yesterday, and asked if he would take the position, and he then declined. I hope the unanimous expression of the wish that the hon. gentleman would take the chair will induce the hon. member to reconsider his determination. Seeing that there are so many new members, the Speaker should be a man who will command the entire confidence of the House, and who can direct the business in reference to all points of order, and I am sure that there is no gentleman in the House who is more capable than the hon. member for the Clutha. I, therefore, have much pleasure in proposing the Hon. Major Richardson. (Hear.) Mr M'Lean seconded the nomination. The Hon. Major Richabdson : It is with peculiar gratification that I have heard it proposed from the Ministerial benches that I should occupy the chair of this House ; but there are circumstances, and the fact that I have been so long absent from the arena of politics, which justify me in declining the position. —(Hear. ) I must thank the hon. member, Mr Bastings, but would have appreciated his compliment much more, when he stated that I was the fittest person to occupy that chair, if he had said so before he proposed the Hon. Mr Reynolds. (Loud laughter.) Mr Bastings was understood to explain that he was not aware Mr Reynolds would not act. The Hon. Major Richardson : I accept the apology with the same frankness in which it is now tendered. — (Laughter.).- 1 do not wish to delay the proceedings of this House with any further remarks, and respectfully decline to accede to the request of the hon. member. Mr Bastings: I am sorry that I have to withdraw my motion. MtTolmie: Mr Sessions, I have seen Mr Reynolds again, and at my strong solicitation, and seeing that no member has been proposed^ to take the chair, he has consented to allow himself to be nominated ; I, therefore, again propose Mr Reynolds as Speaker of this House. Mr M'Dermid seconded the nomination. Mr H. Clabk : Mr Sessions, I have to move an amendment upon the motion as proposed Mr Wood wished, before any amendment was moved, to ask whether it was strictly in order to propose a gentleman a second time immediately after his name having been withdrawn? Five minutes before, Mr Reynolds had been proposed, and he had positively declined to accept the office if elected; and he thought ie should be stated to the Conncil, in the first place, if he had retracted that statement; and if he had not, whether he was prepared to do so. In that case, the Council ought to consider whether it was in order to propose a gentleman a second time, immediately alter the first proposition of his name had been withdrawn. The Clerk said he was not aware that there was anything out of order. The Hon. Mr Reynolds : I have to say that several hon. members have asked me to reconsider my decision. I leave myself entirely in the hands of the Council. If elected, I will endeavor to fulfil the duties of the office as far as I possibly can ; if not elected, and the Council elect any other hon. member, I will be satisfied.—(Hear.) Mr Clark: I rise to move that Mr John Lillie Gillies be Speaker. I cannot see any good reason at all that Mr Reynolds should be preferred to Mr Gillies. The late Council very generally admitted that Mr Gillies filled the chair in a very efficient and satisfactory manner. Mr Lumsden seconded the nomination. All members of the late Council who had seats in the House, would agree with him in saying that Mr Gillies had fulfilled his duties k as Speaker most efficiently and impartially. The election would be decided by the new members; and in whatever light they viewed the question, Mr Gillies had decided chums upon the old members, and they should support him. The Hon. Major Richardson remarked tha Mr Gillies and he had for manjr years been connected with Provincial Council business ; had fought battles on both sides, and both been Speakers. The Council could not do better than unanimously elect Mr Gillies. The Hon. Mr M'Lean said that the same objection which had been stated to the Hon. Mr Jieynolds's election applied to the election which had just now been proposed. If the office was derogatory to the one gentleman it was equally derogatory to the position held by the other. Mr Bastings : I wish to say one word on behalf of the Government. The Government has no wish to bring party feeling into the discussion of this matter. To prove that individually I have no desire to foster that feeling, I have to state I waited upon the hon. member for the Clutha, Major Richardson, and pressed upon him to accept the office of Speaker. The Government did not for a moment suppose but that Mr Gillies would be nominated Speaker, and with the view of introducing the subject they proposed Mr Reynolds. After proposing j Mr Reynolds a lull took place, and that was the proper time to have named Mr Gillies. There were not more than three hon. members in this House competent to fill the chair of this Council, viz., the hon. member for the Clutha, Major Richardson, the hon. member for Dunedin, Mr Reynolds, and the member for Milton, Mr Gillies. Therefore, they had not many names to bring forward. It was "mite unreasonable to suppose that the Government would nominate Mr Gillies. — (A Voice : " Why not?") Well, for reasons that are at all events sufficient to my own mind, and sufficient to others in the Council. — (Applause.) If you ask my opinion r as to either the fitness of Mr Gillies or that of Mr Reynolds. I answerthat both of them are far from being well fitted for the office of Speaker. They were both partisans of eithei one side or the other. Two years ago I voted against Mr Reynolds for that very reason. The Government was not disposed to get tip a party question on this election, and had Mr Gillies been proposed at once, he would not have been opposed. Major Richardson called the attention of •file Council to remarks made by the Hon. Mr M'Lean, to the effect that he (Major Richardson) -had no right to be a member of this Council. The Hon. Mr M'Lean rose to explain that he had made no such remark. All that he had intended to do was to draw a comparison between the position of the Hon. Mr Reynolds and that of the Hon. Major Richardson in relation to the appointment of Speaker. He went on to say— No one is more glad than lam to find the hon. gentleman in this Council. The Hon. Major Richardson : The hon. member has poured the oil of gladness over my souL I thank him kindly for this expression of his sentiments. I wish also to add that no possible dignity that could be conferred upon me could induce me to forego my rights as a citizen of New Zealand} Dr Webster : I do not mean to give a silent vote upon this subject. I have noticed the reasons given by Mr Reynolds for declining to

accept the office. I quite concur in these reasons. I am strongly of opinion that the members of this House should not sanction any person becoming a member of the Executive Council who was a member of the General Assembly. On the same grounds I object to Mr Reynolds being elected to the Speaker's chair. A great deal had to be done during the recess, and if members were absent in Wellington it was quite impossible that the work could be properly done. I have heard a great deal about the partiality of the late Speaker. My own experience of that gentleman leads me to say that I should like to find an hon. member less partial than the member for Milton. However, I believe it is not to be expected that strict impartiality is to be found. Ido not see that any objection can be taken to the conduct of the late Speaker, unless during the last days of the session. •On that occasion a good deal of feeling was manifested by members on both sides of the House. Ido not wish members to understand by these remarks that I am going to accord with the members of the Government or with members on the Opposition side of the House. It ■will remain to be seen hereafter whether lam or not at one with the Government or with the Opposition. Far too much party spirit has been already manifested, and I am determined to bring about a compromise, if possible. Although Mr Gillies displayed a little too much partiality at the close of the last session, everyone was liable to err, and I have no doubt but that in future he will be a 1 little more carefuL — (Laughter.) I hope there j will be no division upon the question of this election, but if there is, I will vote against Mr Reynolds. Mr Tolsiie applied for, and was granted leave to withdraw the nomination of Mr Reynolds. Mr Reid : I have heard a great deal with regard to the laying aside of party feeling and endeavoring to proceed with the work of the country. If the Government was really actuated by that desire, I think they had a good opportunity afforded to them for paving the way by naming Mr Gillies as Speaker. The only objection that had been stated to Mr Gillies's reelection was that some ten minutes before the prorogation of the last session he had allowed a speaker on one side to obtain an undue advantage over a speaker on the other. He (Mr Gillies) had, as Speaker of the late Council, shown a decision of character and firmness of purpose, and for these and other reasons it gives me great pleasure in again supporting his election as Speaker. Mr Fish would not have attempted to address the House had it not been for the remarks of Mr Reid, who first deprecated party feeling and then did the very thinghe deprecated. He (Mr Fish) had not intended to have said one syllable against Mr Gillies, and would not have done so but for the unwise and impolitic remarks of Mr Reid. He said that Mr Reynolds and himself were the only persons who were dissatisfied with Mr Gillies's conduct as Speaker on the last day of the last session, it was not only apparent to members on his (Mr Fish's) side, but the feeling extended to both sides of the House, and even beyond it. There was no doubt about it, the conduct of Mr Gillies as Speaker on that occtsion — he did not think he was going too far in saying so— was a disgrace to anybody occupying the honorable position of Speaker. — (Cries of " Oh!") What were the facts? An official document was handed to the Speaker ; the Speaker said this document was not official, and took no notice of it, consequently his friend the member for the Taieri pr jceedd with the speech he was making. A few minutes elapsed, and as the hon. member for the Taieri had made his speech, which set forch the views of his party on the question at issue, he (Mr Fish) rose to make a few remarks in contradiction of what Mr Reid had stated, when the Speaker produced the document which he had before pronounced to be illegal ; and this was done to shut him (Mr Fish) up, and prevent him speaking. — (Mr Clark : "As you ought to be.") Was this impartial conduct ? He was aware that the hon. member for Taieri regarded it as an insult and indignity that he (Mr Fish) should speak, and that he had a great contempt for him ; but, having been elected by a not unimportant constituency he would take the liberty of using his privilege of speech whenever he thought fit, whether it pleased the hon. member or not. He had no objection individu ally to Mr Gillies Mr Hallenstein rose to say that he understood no member could speak longer than ten minutes. Mr Fish replied that Mr Hallenstein's remark was impertinent, and from a narrow point of view he would be likely ,j Mr Wood considered Mr Fish, in his reference to the member for the Lakes, out of order. , Mr Gillies : I hope hon. members will not . take the slightest notice of Mr Fish's remarks. I have no intention of doing so. Mr Fish made a few additional observations, and withdrew his reference to Mr Hallenstein. No other candidate being proposed, Mr Gillies was escorted to the chair by his proposer and seconder, and, on taking his seat, said he had to express his acknowledgment of the high honor that had been conferred upon him by the Council in electing him for the second time Speaker of the Provincial Council of Otago. In the future, as in the past, he should be guided in all his rulings and decisions by the standing orders, and by the rules and precedents laid down in Parliamentary practice. A great deal of labor and anxiety would be saved tne Speaker, if members would study well these standing orders and the rules of proceedings laid down in May. Shortly afterwards, a message announcing His Honor's confirmation of the appointment was read. His Honor then entered the Chamber, and delivered the following speech : — Mr Speaker and Gentlemen op the Pbovin cial Council:— As you are aware, the provision for carrying on the public service under authority of law expired on the 31st of May last, hence it is that I have called you together on the shortest possible notice, and I fear at no small personal inconvenience to many of you. The Estimates for the current year will be submitted to you without delay. In addition to the various matters referred to in my Opening Address to the late Provincial Council on the 6th May last, definite proposals will be submitted having for their object the immediate construction of light railways in various parts of the Province. Some of these railways will act as feeders to the main line — all of them will facilitate the profitable occupation and settlement of the country, and will save the large expenditure which otherwise it will be necessary to incur in the formation and maintenance of metalled roads. I believe that so soon as the Piovince is in possession of the means of transit which the contemplated railways will provide, there is no reason why the remunerative export of agricultural produce should not exceed in value all the other exports of the Province put together. The sooner, therefore, that we make such provision the better. Gentlemen, — The question of assimilating the Waste Lands Regulations of the late Province of Southland with those of Otago has lately forced itself on my attention, in connection with the expediency of reserving land for future settlement, contiguous to the lines of contemplated railways, and of setting aside blocks of land for agricultural settlement on deferred payment. Under the Southland Waste Lands Act at present in force, there is no provision in the direction indicated ; and it appears to me that the objects referred to would be most readily ! attained by bringing the whole Province under the operation of the " Otago Waste Lands Act 1872." At the same time, seeing that there was an understanding when the re-union took place, that the existing Southland Waste Lands Act was to remain intact, I should be chary about taking any action towards its repeal without the approval of the representatives of the Southland portion of the united Province. Some time ago it was intended to have proclaimed several Hundreds in the Goldfields, so as to promote agricultural settlement, and to provide grazing rights. Owing, however, to the very strong objections which -were urged against these proposals, the matter was allowed to drop. The question is one which is deserving of your consideration, with a view, if possible, of providing Hundreds oft Goldfieldjj, and of jpro<

claiming deferred payment blocks within the same, without alienation from the Crown of land that is payably auriferous. Gentlemen,— Seeing that the Colonial Parliament, of which so many of you are membeis, is to assemble for business on the 15th instant, it will be expedient to regulate the duration of the present session accordingly. If it should be found that the business of the Province cannot be accomplished within the next fortnight, it will be requisite either to adjourn or prorogue for a few months. I would venture to hope, however, that this may not be necessary, and that we may be able to set an example to the superior Legislature of what can be accomplished by those who are determined to economise time, and to turn it to profitable account. Gentlemen,— -Assembled as we are for the first time as a newly-elected Provincial Legislature, permit me to express a hope that we may bury the hatchet, and work together for the public welfare ; that we may each and all strive to manifest that mutual concession which is so essential to the working of free institutions. Seeing that the session must needs be a short one, and that it is desirable to proceed to practical business without unnecessary delay, I venture to suggest that the usual formality of replying to the Opening Address may be dispensed with, the more especially as it is hoped that the various matters referred to will be dealt with by you separately. Gentlemen, — With an earnest desire that we may be guided by that wisdom which I cometh from above, I now declare this Council open for the despatch of business. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented — From 129 settlers at South Clutha, praying for such a slight deviation of the Main Trunk line, as would enable it to pass by cultivated districts ; from the Clutha Road Board, praying for a commission to inquire into old standing and intricate accounts (Major Richardson) ; from 135 residents in the Western district of Southland complaining of the state of roads (Mr Daniel). The following petition by pupils of the Girls' High School, past and present, was presented by by Major Richardson. "That your memorialists desire gratefully to recognise the great advantages which your honorable House has conferred upon us and upon the Province, by the institution of the school in which we are now and have been students. It has been the means of instilling and fostering in us an earnest deßire to cultivate, so far as our other duties have permitted, those powers of mind which are our common 4 inheritance, and has led in no small degree to the University of Otago, so justly our pride, willingly opening its halls for the higher education of women, and admitting iis, not not only to its lectures, but also to certificates, which are the equivalents of degrees. This deserves, as it has called forth, our warmest gratitude. Royal Princesses in the old country have not thought it beneath their dignity to afford their support to one of the noblest movements which characterise the present day, and not only so, b\it have personally in terestedtheraseves, and have enlisted the personal and practical sympathy of the professors of one of our most venerable colleges in the great work. We have yet a favor to ask at the hands of your honorable House : it is the boon which you have given to your brothers, and one which we feel assured you will gladly give to us. We ask that scholarships similar to those which call forth their energies, and make them fitter citizens, may be extended to us, so that we may become better fitted to do our duty, and, if we be to assist in earning our livelihood as teachers, thus transmitting to others the blessings with which your liberality has endowed us. Your memorialists earnestly commend this prayer to your favorable consideration." GOVERNMENT EXPLANATION. Mr Tolmie : I have to inform this Council that the membeis of the new Government have been gazetted by his Honor the Superintendent to-day. The new Government as gazetted consists of myself as Provincial Secretary, Mr Turnbull as Provincial Treasurer, Mr Bastings as Secretary for the Goldfields and Works, Mr Turton as Provincial Solicitor, and Mr M'Dermid as a member without office. I wish to explain that I have only accepted office with the view of facilitating the business of the present session. I felt that if I declined accepting office great inconvenience would be experienced by a new member coming in and taking my place, the more especially as the time for carrying on the business of the country was limited, not exceeding ten or eleven days. If it is the wish of the House that I should remain in office during the session, I will do so. Whether or not, it is my intention to retire at the close of this session. Personally, I have no desire to be a member of the Government. I quite agree with the object aimed at by Dr Webster's notice of motion that no memoer of the Government should be a member of the General Assembly. I believe that it is the intention to reconstruct the Government at the close of the session on a basis that will be satisfactory to all. It was proposed to add one member from the Northern, and another member from the Southern districts of the Province. I wish to make a few remarks in reference to the opinion expressed regarding my position as a member of the Waste Land Board. I hold office as a member of that Board so long as I remain a member of the Government. So long as I hold my position as a member of the Government I shall also retain my seat as a member of the Waste Land Board. The moment I cease to hold the one office I also cease to hold the other. I think that explanation ■will be quite sufficient for those members who really desire that the business of the country should be gone on with expeditiously. It is quite possible that all the business will not be disposed of during the very short time allowed for the present session. In that case, it will be incumbent on the Council to pass measures of pressing importance, more particularly the Estimates. That done the business can be proceeded with, and if necessary, the Council can be called together again at the close of the General Assembly. I will not now detain the House any longer, as I will have other opportunities for addressing you. The Estimates have been printed, after which some alterations were made which n-eces-. Bitated their being reprinted. They will, however, be laid upon the table this week. Mr Shand was about to review the remarks made by the previous speaker in reference to his (Mr Tolraie's) position as a member of the Waste Land Board, when he was called to order by the Speaker. Mr Shand : Then I will say nothing more just now, but I will bring the matter up again to-morrow. Mr Reid spoke at some length. He expressed a strong opinion that definite information should be furnished as to what shape the proposed reconstruction of the Government should take before they were asked to pass the Estimates. He understood that the Government contractors had not been paid, and that their non-payment had ben imputed to the action adopted by him (Mr Reid) in the late Council. Mr Tobnbull denied that any such statement had ever been made by the Treasury. Mr Redd continued to say that he thought it would be quite sufficient if the Government framed a BUI to make good the payment for all current contracts, and leave the general question of appropriation to be settled after the Council had received definite information regarding the proposed reconstruction of the Government. For his own part he had no intention of passing these appropriations hurriedly ; nor until he knew who the Government was by whom their "votes would be expended, and by whom the exercise of the other important duties devolving upon the Government would be performed. Mr Stout wished to know the real position of the Government. At the close of last session they refused to go on with the business, stating as their reason that they simply held office until their successors had been appointed. Mr Turnbull expressed surprise that the previous speaker should have evinced such a lamentable want of knowledge of constitutional law. — (Laughter.) With the election of a new Council, a new Government had also to be elected. That had been done that morning. His Honor the Superintendent had just issued a proclamation electing a fresh Government, the individual members of which had been announced. The late Government became defunct.—(Cries of "No, no.") Mr Stout remarked upon the strange position in which the Government stood in relation to the Cpunetff During the last session the .

Government tendered its resignation, and refused to carry on the business, stating that it simply hold office until its successors had been appointed. Two members, at least, of that Government got tip and condemned the conduct of the Superintendent in not calling the Council together. They afterwards stated that the Superintendent had done right, and then that they would the verdict of the country as to whether he had acted rightly or Avrongly. These same gentlemen had continued to retain office now more than a month after they had tendered their resignation. Now they were told that the Superintendent had re-appointed them to office. What was still stranger, they were asked to pass the Estimates, and while they were told about a reconstruction of the Government, not a word was said as to what that reconstruction was to be. He thought the Government would see its way to advise the Superintendent to give a list of the names proposed for the new Executive, so that they might judge whether they had the confidence of the Council or not. In reply to a question put by the Hon. Major Richardson, the Provincial Secretary said he did not think it would be advisable for the Council to meet on Saturdays during the sitting. Mr M'Kenzie made a remark, in answer to which the Provincial Secretary said that it was intended that the Government should be reconstructed before the Council prorogued. All that was intended by the present arrangement was that the business should be carried on without interruption to the close of the session. The Speaker ruled out of oider a question by Mr M'Kenzie as to how the Council did not meet yesterday, as was originally intended. After some further debate, the motion for adjournment was put and carried. Wednesday, July 2. petitions. The following petitions were received— From land-holders and residents in the district of Kakanui, that L 5,000 voted by the Provincial Government for Harbor Works at Kakanui, or portion thereof, should be expended in the prosecution of said works. (Dr Webster.)— From the members of the Lyndhurst Road Board for re-construction of the district by separating the Waimumu sub-division. (Mr Kinross.)-- From residents in Tapanui that the Council recommend the Waste Land Board to re-consider its decision refusing to allow valuation for improvements made upon land adjoining these allotments. (Hon. Dr Menzies).— From settlers in the Pomahaka district that a fair proportion of the revenue raised in the district should be expended upon public works in the locality. (Hon. Dr Menzies). — From Robert Dodds and Isaac Wyber relative to the depasturing of sheed at the Table-hill district. (Mr Clark).— From residents of Cardrona relative to a sum of L 240 voted for the improvement of the road communication between that and the adjoining districts, and which was handed over to the Municipal Council of Cromwell. (Mr D. M'Kellar).— From merchants, lightermen, shipowners, and others residing in Dunedin and Port Chalmers, relative to the imposition of certain dues. (Mr Stout). — From members of a Progress Committee, chosen by the inhabitants of Macraes Flat, relative to the state of the road between that place and Shag Valley. (Mr J. M'Kenzie).— From parents and guardians of boys attending the High School, ftraying for a competent systen of inspection. Hon. Mr Bathgate). QUESTIONS. The Hon. Major Richardson asked : Whether any report has been received from the commissioner appointed to investigate certain charges made against the head master of the Tokomairiro grammar school, in connection with the absence of one of the scholars from religious instruction; and if not, what is the cause of the delay, and when will the charges be examined into? The Provincial Secretary : In reply to the question, I have got to say that the commissioner appointed to examine into this charge has communicated with the gentleman who made the charge, and at his request the matter has been postponed for six weeks. The Hon. Major Richardson said that, so far as he was concerned, the question had not been satisfactorily answered. Would the Government pursue this investigation to a satisfactory result, or would they insist upon this slur upon cur educational department no longer remaining ? The Provincial Secretary : The Government have, of course, taken the initiative ; but at the request of the gentleman who made the charge, have postponed it, as it is inconvenient for him to attend. The Hon. Major Richardson asked : Whether the report of the commission appointed to investigate the allegations made against Mr Warden Beetham by certain Chinese, is, in the opinion of the Government, such as to fully exonerate the Warden ? The commission had fully exonerated Mr Beetham. So far so good, but he thought it was only right towards a Government officer, charged in this way, that the Government should come forward in a public capacity and declare that these charges had, in their opinion, either been disproved or were true. The Provincial Secretary : I have to say that the Government are perfectly satisfied that the charges brought against Mr Warden Beetham were untrue ; and were satisfied beforehand. — (Hear. ) Mr M'Kenzie asked what amount of money has been expended for road works in the Peninsula electoral district during the last financial year? The Provincial Treasurer: In answer to that question, I have to state that the amount expended on road works in the district has been L 514 19s Id. lam not aware at this moment whether there is an indebtedness, but I do not think there is. However, I will give the necessary information to-morrow. Mr Stout asked what the cost of the recent elections of Superintendent and Provincial Councillors has been to the Province ? The Provincial Treasurer : The answer to this question is, that I am unable to say. I can tell the hon. member the number of claims that have been lodged in the Treasury up to the present time, and the amount of them is Lll2 16s 6d. There are, no doubt, others to come in ; several returning officers have not yet forwarded their claims ; so that probably the amount will be more than what is claimed up to the present moment. BILLS. The Provincial Solicitor moved the second reading of the Dunedin Management Ordinance, 1867, Amendment Bill. The Hon. Major Richardson moved as an amendment that the Bill should be read that day six months. The area set forth in the schedule of the Act adjoined the Middle School, where upwards of 600 children were confined, with barely sufficient breathing space allotted to them. The importance of sufficient ground connected with schools was forcibly pointed out by the High School Commission. The amendment was seconded by Mr M'Kenzie. Mr Fish moved the adjournment of the debate until to-morrow, to afford him an opportunity for satisfying the mover of the amendment that his apprehensions were groundless. The further consideration of the matter was adjourned till to-morrow. On a motion for the second reading of the Otago Municipal Corporation Ordinance Amendment Bill, Mr Fish expressed an opinion that the power might be conferred upon the Superintendent, and the Executive Council should be guarded by a reservation that their powers were passed without first ascertaining that it was the wish of a majority of the citizens. It was pointed out by the Secretary for Works that jflie case put by the member for Caversham was an extreme one. The Government only moved at the request of municipal bodies, and they brought down this Bill merely for the purposes of some up country municipality. The Government would, nowever, withdraw the Bill and introduce a separate Bill for any municipality that desired to increase its boundaries. The Bill was accordingly withdrawn. On the second reading of the South Dunedin Cemetery Closing Bill, Mr M'Glashan intimated that he would have to oppose the Bill unless it were amended, because it took away the rights of persons who had purchased land in the cemetery. The second clause should be so altered as to permit of persons who had purchased land to be entitled at all times to bring their friends and relatives there. It was stated by the Government that the objection could be met, and the second, reading passed.

Tho Port Chalmers and Queenstown Water- 1 works Empowering, the Bridges Traffic Regu- I lation, and the Dempsey Trust Bills were read a second time. TIME OF MEETING. Mr Brown moved, " That this Council is of opinion that the financial year should terminate on the 30th September each year, instead of March 31, as at present." The motion was supported by Mr Lumsden and Mr Kinross, on the ground that the change of time would greatly convenience the country members, who found it exceedingly difficult to travel over the roads in the winter ; and opposed by Dr Webster, on the ground that the change would be greatly inconvenient, September being the month in which agriculturalists and those engaged in pastoral pursuits initiated their various operations ; and by Mr M'Lean and Mr Bathgate, on the ground that it would clash with the meeting of the Colonial Parliament. The Provincial Secretary had heard no good reason for altering the date of the financial year. If the motion were passed, supplies would have to be voted either for six months or eighteen months, which was inconvenient ; but apart from that, it would be of greater iuconI venience to members to attend in the spring ■ months. The time of year in which the Council had hitherto met was a good one. There was another thing to be borne in mind : it was with regard to the framing of the Estimates and the acceptance of contracts. If the Council meeting was postponed till October, as it generally occupied six weeks, that would bring it to the middle of November ; and members generally had expressed a desire that the contracts for works should be accepted before the Ist of January, which would be impossible, if the time were changed. — (Hear). The motion was simply one of those side winds in connection with the motion of the member for Blueskin, which had been negatived a short time before. He would certainly oppose it. The motion was negatived on the voices. DEFERRED PAYMENTS. Mr Stout moved — "That in the opinion of this Council it is expedient, in order to provide for the speedy settlement of the country, that the Otago Waste Lands Act 1872, in so far as it provides that the area open for alienation by deferred payments shall not exceed 30,000 acres, and that no new block or any one now shall be opened in the same system, until at least one-half of the said block should be amended. That there should be provided, in lieu of the provisions in the said Waste Lands Act relating to the alienation of land on deferred payments, that the area to be opened in any one year sh»uld not exceed 100,000 acres, and that there should be no limit as to quantity to be taken from any one run, nor should it bo insisted on that at least one-half of the land opened for sale on the said system should be sold or leased before further land could be opened." It was unnecessary to make any lengthened remarks, because tho Council had on more than one occasion affirmed the principle of his motion. In the Waste Lands Bill sent to the Assembly last year, there was no limit whatever to the quantity of land to be opened for sale on deferred payment ; therefore he was not asking the Council to assert any new principle. It might be asked why the motion was brought forward ? why the Act of 1872 was not given- a fair trial before asking to have it amended ? There were various reasons. One was that the Executive Superintendent, in his Address to the late Council, regretted that there was any limit to the areas placed at the disposal of the Government by the Act. Another reason was that there would be no need for Provincial legislatures if they were not to alter laws in the way they considered suited to their circumstances. The sole question was — Was the amendment necessary ? and no person could read his Honor's Address without seeing that it was urgently required. What areas did the Address propose to set aside under the deferred payment system? 2,500 acres in the Tuapeka and other districts : blocks of 2,500 acres cut out of certain runs ; and the result would be that only small blocks would be set aside, without grazing rights for the settlers. This should urge the Council to see that no block of land was thrown open for sale without haying some grazing rights attached to it, so that new settlers could carry on farming operations with some chance of success. He also referred to the necessity of providing means of settlement for the immigrants to be brought out under the colonising scheme, and remarked that there was a danger of what had happened in Southland occurring here. Owing to the rise in wool and some other products, capital had become more plentiful, and the capitalists, seeing that the area of agricultural land was very limited, were buying up large blocks, thereby injuring the future settlement of that part of the country, because it was almost hopeless for a person of limited means to contend against tke capitalist. It was the duty of the State to prevent a land monopoly or the land being swallowed up, and to provide against it the Assembly had been urged to inaugurate this scheme of deferred payments, and the system should be encouraged in every possible way. It might be urged if the resolutions were carried, that the result would be that injury would be done to the pastoral tenants. That could not be urged as an objection, as in the first place the pastoral tenants took their leases on the understanding that if a settlement increased they must retire ; while in the second, it would be a greater injury to the pastoral tenants to have small blocks taken out of their runs here and there — to have the choice spots in them picked — than to have one large area taken at once and the thing done with. Further, the provisions of the Act of 1872 did not affect the declaration of Hundreds. 18,500 acres could be taken from a run, and the remainder could be taken, if necessary, for Hundreds ; therefore his tenure would not be more secure than under the plan proposed. He did not object to the provision in that Act that before further land could be opened up one-third of the land opened up on deferred payments should be occupied. That was a guarantee to the Province that the agricultural land was not to be too readily disposed of. Unless the Act were altered in the manner he suggested the system would not be a success to the Province — (hear); — he therefore hoped that Council, if not unanimously, would pass the resolution by a large majority, so that the Assembly would feel bound to recognise the wishes of the Council. Mr M'Kenzie seconded. Mr M'Lean only intended to express a hope that the hon. gentleman who had taken the question in hand might prove more successful than those who had preceded him. For the last five years they had had a new Land Act without even tryingit ; andnow there appeared a new cook to prepare a fresh one. He was pretty sure that if the proposed amendment was sent up to the Assembly, there would be but one opinion entertained there : that whatever Otago legislators were fit for, they certainly were not fit to pass a land law. It would be better to abolish the hind laws altogether than to go on getting new Acts, without endeavoring to put them into force. Mr Shand admitted the resolutions were not perfect; but they were good as far as they went. As the hon. member for Oamaru had stated, the act had not got a fair trial. On the Government benches were a number of gentlemen who were opposed to the Act in its entirety, and his candid belief was they wished to make it a failure. It would never be near a success until the Council placed on the benches the party that passed the measure through the^ Council, and forced it on the Assembly. That* was the reason why he had given notice of motion of want of confidence, so that they might test their strength, and see if they had power to give that Act a triaL Dr Webster meant to oppose the motion, for the reason adduced by the last speaker, namely, that the present Land Act had not had a fair triaL Whether the last speaker was right in saying that the present Government had prevented its having a fair trial, he was not prepared to say. He did not think they had ; but he thought it was perfectly absurd for them to be making laws every year, and sending up amendments to the Assembly before giving them a fair trial. Regarding the small area that could be opened under the deferred payment system, he said — One tenth of the Bastoral land was fit for occupation at the present time. The Government could throw open from 2,500 to 5,000 in one run, and if additional land were required, could select a like quantity from adjoining runs. This could be done on most runs throughout the Province, and so in a great measure could the objection to small areas be removed. He would

not be opposed to increasing the area from 30,000 to 100,000 acres, provided after the first year's trial it was proved that the larger portion of the 30.000 had been taken up for settlement. Let the Act be worked as it is ; let it be carried out in its true spirit, and let them set apart agricultural land on which people could settle and make something out of it ; then the Council would be doing justice to themselves, and some good to the country. Mi- Browne was astonished that the hon. member for Caversham should come forward with an amendment of the Land Act at such a time. He would move as an amendment on his resolutions, " That in the opinion of this Council it is inexpedient to attempt to amend the Otago Waste Lands Act, 1872, until the said Act has had a legitimate triaL" Mr M'Glashan seconded the amendment. He was quite sure that if the resolutions should be passed, and go up to the Assembly they would be spurned. It took two years to pass the present Land Act, and he knew that the feeling that existed was very much averse to passing the Act, owing to tha fact that there had been so many Waste Lands Bills from Otago. Messrs Wood, Wilson, and Lumsden supported the motion. Mr M'Dermid Haid the Government intended to carry out the Act, both in its letter and spirit. He claimed to have been the first to introduce the deferred payment system, in 1869 -(cries of " No ") — and remembered when Mr Shepherd introduced resolutions on the same subject, they were opxjosed by Mr Reid and the party that acted with him — (cries of "No") — while Mr Reid's Government, by a side-wind, prevented them being discussed. He (Mr M'Dermid) thought there ought to be no limit to the area to be thrown open, and would go even further than the resolution and support a measure for increasing the acreage to be held by one person, from 200 to 320 or 640 acres. The Hon. Major Richardson asked if the Government would favor the House with an expression of opinion on the subject of the motion. MtTolmie said that there was no occasisu for him, as representing the Government, to say anything upon the original motion, because, as an hon. member had already stated, his donor the Superintendent in his Address had expressed his opinion as to the requirements of the country with regard to blosks of land for the deferred payments system. His Honor, in that statement, had reflected the opinions of the Government ; therefore he thought it would be well to allow the resolutions of the hon. member for Caversham to pass, and to withdraw the amendment. The motion was then carried. SOUTHLAND LAND REGULATIONS. On the motion of Mr Lumsden, followed by a short debate, the following resolutions were carried :— " Ist. That this Council resolves, with the concurrence of his Honor the Superintendent, and in terms of clause 16 of the Southland Waste Lands Act, 1865, that blocks of agricultural land, amounting in the aggregate to at least 200,000 acres, be set apart in that part of the Province comprised within the late Province of Southland, as a Reserve for the purpose of promoting emigration to bonafide settlement and public works in that district ; and that with the iew of making a judicious selection of such lands only as are suited for agricultural purposes, the Superintendent be requested to appoint Commissioners to make such selection; and the Council recommends that two of such Commissioners should be the Chiet Commissioner of Crown Lands and the Inspector of Surveys in the district. 2nd. That the said lands be disposed of from time to time for occupation on the plan of deferred payments only, as already adopted under the 'Otago Waste Lands Act, 1572.' 3rd. That this Council considers it expedient that the ' Southland Waste Lands Act, 1865,' be amended so as to provide for the discontinuance of the system of freeselection, and the application of the plan of deferred payments, in the disposal of the remaining unsold agricultural lands within the Southland district : And that with the view of giving effect to this and the foregoing resolutions, his Honor the Superintendent be requested to introduce a Bill into the General Assembly at its next session to amend the ' Southland Waste Lands Act, 1865,' accordingly." ROAD REPAIRS. Mr M'Kenzie moved, "Thatthe Government be instructed to take immediate steps to put the Main North Road and the north interior roads in a passable state of repair." The Secretary for Works said he deeply sympathised with the objects of the motion, and that he fully bore out the remarks made regarding the deplorable state of these roads. As a matter of course, the blame would be laid on the late Government. However, he had to inform them that the Government had not only spent the money voted for this purpose, but they had actually gone the length of expending money upon it which had not been voted. The late Executive had actually taken upon itself to spend a sum of Ll,ooo in excess of the amounts voted, so that they had actually done more than the Council authorised them to do. Metal had been ordered for these roads, and would be put down as fast as possible. In reference to a remark made by the mover of the motion, that the coach had been detained that night to eight o'clock, he had only to state that much more serious delays took place on some of the other roads, delays arising from the bad state of these roads. The Tuapeka coach from the Dunstan last winter not unfrequently arrived just in time to allow passengers to jump into the Dunedin coach, having been detained all night on the road. In matters of road making the Council should bear in mind that the Government had exceptional difficulties to contend with. They had from seventeen to eighteen hundred miles of made road to maintain. To put them in thorough repair a sum of at least L 500.000 would be required. Now, they must be aware that the Government had not money at its command to do all that at once. The Government had done all it could do, and it could not be expected to do more. The motion was put and carried. THE ADVERTISING SHEET. Mr Fish moved, " That in future all adververtisements, calling for tenders or intimating the sale of land, should be inserted in the newspapers." He said that at the present time the Government was in the habit of advertising in the Gazette sheet only. It was true the Gazette was supplied gratis, but he took leave to think that despite that fact it was far from being extensively perused. The result was that sufficient publicity was not given to public advertisements, and serious loss was occasioned thereby — a loss far beyond any gain arising from the charges saved by the sheet. On the suggestion of Messrs Stout and Sumpter, the motion was amended by the addition of the words "papers published in the localities referred to by the advertisement, as also the Dunedin papers." Mr Reid did not agree with the estimate placed on the value of the advertising sheet. It was a fast within his knowledge that it was extensively circulated and carefully perused. The proposal to advertise in the newspapers would involve an enormous expenditure far in excess of what members contemplated. Then there was a difficulty about what really constituted a paper published in the district. He thought the present arrangement perfectly satisfactory — advertisements were inserted at length in the sheet, and a short notice put in the district papers calling attention to the sale, and referring to the sheet for detailed particulars. The_ Provincial Secretary concurred in the opinions expressed by the last speaker, after which the motion was withdrawn. DEFERRED PAYMENTS. Mr Shand moved—" Ist. That all that area of land within the Province of Otago, as per plan attached, and therein colored green and numbered, be withdrawn from sale, for the purpose of being placed under deferred payments as required. 2nd. That a Commission, consisting of the Hon. Major Richardson, Mr Driver, Dr Webster, and (with their consent) the mover, along with the Acting-Surveyor (Mr MKerrow), be appointed to report, during the recess, on the within runs, as to the necessity or advisability of selling part of such runs, not agricultural land, for the payment of railways within the Province. 3rd. That the Provincial Government be authorised, as soon as possible, to call for tenders for the immediate construction of the railway between Balclutha and Mataura. The railway to be offered to the General Government, should they be prepared to take the contracts up." [The following are the runs referred to in the foregoing motion ;— Ruq 111, M'Nab'e, 54,000

acres ; 131, M'lntyre's, 32,600 ; 175 b, Ibbotson, say 10,000 suitable for settlement ; 167 a, Larnach, 21,400, of which 7,000 is surveyed into sections ; part of 7S, Tolmie, 5,000, of which ">,OOO is already sanctioned ; 167 b, M'lntyre's, 21,400; 108, M'Kenzies, 17,000, of thisl,ooo acres are in sections : 176 a, Logan's 23,000, less 11,000, 12,000. Thell,oooacres were recently purchased by Mr Logan in December, 1873. Part of 212, Herbert, say 8,000 suitable for settlement; part of 163, M'Kellar's, late Schlotel, and part of 178, say 8,000 suitable for settlement ; part of 193, Swanston, and part of 194, M'Kellar, say 10,000 suitable for settlement. Grand total, 200,000. The whole of this 200,000 acres is well adapted for farms ranging from 100 up to, say, 1,000 acres each — the smaller for dairying and cultivation ; the larger for farms partly arable and partly pastoral.] Mr Shand said the land was situated on either side of the Southern Trunk Railway, Invercargill and Balclutha, and was the best unsold portion of agricultural land in the Province. If they were going to dispose of land under the deferred payments system, that was the best place where settlement would get a fair trial. He also trusted that along with the land, a railway would also be at the command of the settlers there ; that before the crops were grown there would be a railway to transport [ them to market. If the motion were carried, , he would some day prove to the citizens of j Dunedin that neither himself nor those who worked with him were obstructionists, for this land was capable of maintaining a population as large as that settled in the Province at the present time. Mr M'Neil said he had very much pleasure in seconding the motion. It was, he thought, a step in the right direction, having a tendency towards accomplishing the double object of settling an industrious population on the waste lands, and inducing a steady flow of immigration. It had always been his impression that the beat immigration agents were those letters which conveyed to friends at Home the word "pictures of a happy Colonial home;" and he was very much afraid that the facilities offered for forming such homes had been too limited hitherto. With a great part of the countryembraced in the motion he was well acquainted, and could speak with the utmost confidence of its suitability for the purpose for which it was sought to be set aside. Of course it could hardly be expected that the whole area of 200,000 acres would be well adapted for strictly agricultural purposes, and therefore he thought the appointment of the Commission, for the purpose of determining the nature and capabilities of the various runs, with the views set forth in the motion, very desirable. As to the desirability of providing for the immediate construction of the railway between Balclutha and Mataura, he apprehended there would be no two opinions. The necessity would commend itself. For these reasons the motion would have his cordial support. The Provincial Secretary asked under what clause of the Land Act the land was proposed to be taken? Mr Shand did not know that power was required under any clause of the Act. He did not wish to leave a Government in power which on some future day might, at a small Executive meeting, agree to sell 20,000 acres of this land. He wished the whole of it to be reserved. The Provincial Secretary : I merely wish to know if the Provincial Council has power to make the reserve ? The Hon. Major Richardson : The Provincial Secretary has raised a question. I think he has the power to consult the Provincial Solicitor, and can get the best answer from that qu rter.— (Laughter.) Mr Reid was amazed at the action of the Government in regard to this matter — amazed that they should have met a motion involving the disposal of 200,000 acres by a mere quibble. The reservation did not require to be made under any clause, but could be made, if the Government wished to make it, in the same way that they reserved the land applied for by Messrs Smith and Gellibrand. Where was the great scheme for connecting the Mataura and Clutha railways propounded in his Honor's Address last session ? He would have expected the Government to have come down and either said "we approve of these resolutions: they agree with our views in regard to the construction of this railway;" or "we cannot support them because they entirely interfere with the scheme for the construction of this railway already considered by the Executive." Instead of that, the Government mind was an utter blank ; at all events, if they had any ideas they were precious careful about them. The Provincial Secretary remarked that, had the hon. member for the Taieri been in his place that afternoon, he would have heard the Goldfields Secretary give notice of a motion indicating the course the Government intended to take in regard to connecting the Clutha and Mataura railways. He did not rise to oppose the resolution ; on the contrary, they embodied to a certain extent the views of the Government. The resolutions were not in proper shape, and the first one was unintelligible. It was customary in such cases to move that an Address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to withdraw, &c. In regard to the motion itself, it was the intention of the Government, as he had already indicated, to bring forward a measure by which the railway conld be constructed, and to reserve certain lands from sale. Mr Shand had said that these lands were open for sale now ; but he was neither aware that such was the case, nor by what means they had been thrown open for sale. Mr Reid was not aware that any portion of the land was open for sale. His own opinion was that very little of it was open. The Provincial Secretary was not aware that a single acre of it was open. As he had already stated, he did not intend to oppose the resolutions, as they were the same thing the Government contemplated, only in a different form. He did not think it necessary to say anything further. The appointment of a Commission was harmless ; and as to the construction of the railway, the Government resolution went further than those of Mr Shand, as it defined the limit to which the Government should go in the matter »f the construction of the line. The Goldfields Secretary said it appeared to him that the member for the Taieri and the members who voted with him were quite sur prised that the Government did not take up a position of antagonism to them on the land question. No doubt they were surprised, because it was the intention of the Government to be as liberal as, if not more liberal, in the matter of the land laws, than any Government that had preceded them. It was amusing to see the member for Caversham arrogating to himself so recently the position of people's champion on the land question. He (Mr Bastings) might say that he would take second place to none in the Province in his desire to settle people on the land. He had devoted as much time and spent as much money in the advocacy of this cause as any man who held a seat in the Council, or who resided in the Province. During the hist seven years he had devoted a large amount of time, and had travelled over hundreds of miles in the Province in advocating a liberal land policy. He had come down to the Council, before he was a member of it, and presented numerous petitions requesting the Government of the day to do something to open up the land in and about the populous districts for the purposes of settlement. And what had been the result ? What had been done during the seven years in regard to the Tuapeka district? The liberal Government of Mr Reid, which had advocated this liberal policy, had opened up 5,000 acres in the neighborhood of Tuapeka, and 2,500 acres in the neighborhood of the Teviot. What else did they do? They sold 50,000 acres in one block, 22,000 acres in another, and some of the finest agricultural land in the Province — viz., the Island Block. And this was the liberal Government with the liberal land policy! He (Mr Bastings) believed in actions, not in words. It had been said that the reason why these blocks were sold was that the Province was in financial difficulties. That was no valid reason. It showed incapacity on the part of the Government to get into difficulty ; they ought never come into power. He defied the Opposition to lay their finger on any act of malad ministration by the present Government in reference to the administration of the lands. The Government had also endeavored to comply with the wishes that had been made to them in reference to commonage. He had seen it stated in a letter sent to Cromwell by the hon. member for the Taieri that the Government had power, under the Act of 1872, to declare commonage, He could, only say-.

Mr REro : That is absolutely incorrect. I merely stated that the Government had power under the Act to take laisd which could be afterwards used as commonage. The Goldfields Secretary had Mr Reid's letter in his possession, and, so far as he could understand English, it said the Government could get commonage by paying for it. All he (Mr Bastings) could say was, that the Government had been very anxious to get commonage for the goldfields ; and speaking for himself and colleagues, they would have been quite wiling to pay for commonage if they could have got it ; but they had not the power to obtain it except through the pastoral tenants ; and, owing to the prevailing prosperity, they had found it exceedingly difficult to make terms with the Crown tenants ; in fact, in most cases, the Government had not been able to make any terms. There was another point, and it was in regard to the declaration of Hundreds within goldflelds. For a considerable time he understood the Government had not the right to declare Hundreds ; but he had now come to the conclusion, after consulting with several, legal gentlemen in the City, that they had the power ; and it was the intention of the Government to proclaim them. There was only this difficulty about it. As soon as Hundreds were declared, there would be an outcry about the land being auriferous ; still he believed that would be got over, as in most cases the land had been thoroughly prospected, and that if the Government threw open the land, the people would be satisfied, even if there was a risk of the Hundred including a little auriferous land. The Go /eminent would support any I motion for setting aside the best agricultural i land in the Province for the purprses of settle- | ment — indeed, there was no party in the Coun- j cil more anxious than they to facilitate settlement — and he trusted the member for the Taieri would take this as an indication of what the Government meant in reference to the land system of the Province. He had now spoken the mind of the Government on the subject. That hon. member might smile, but had he (Mr Bastings) been a member of a Government ! which proposed to do what that hon. member had done, he would immediately have resigned his position, and branded those who had so ccted as traitors to the best interests of the ountry. - (Cheers and ironical cheers.) The Hon. Major Richardson moved the adjournment of the debate. Mr Reid, in reply to the remarks of the Goldfields Secretary, asserted that that gentleman was a consenting party to the vote which enabled the Government to sell the 50,000 acre block. The Goldfields Secretary : No_ Mr Reid : In a conversation witn me after the resolution was carried, the hon. member said to me that he knew where we could dispose of 50,000 acres without any injury to the Province. The Goldfields Secretary : No. I was 250 miles away when the resolution was carried. Mr Reid: I state most positively that the hon. member told me, though not in this Council Chamber, that he knew where we could dispose of 500,000 acres without injury to the Province, and that it was better to sell the land and prosecute public works rather than have no money in the Treasury. The Goldfields Secretary : I never said sell 50,000 acres to Clarke. I could tell you many 50,000 acres that could be sold without disadvantage to the Province. Mr Reid remarked that a material point was to find a purchaser for the land. He repeated, the hon. member for Tuapeka, if he was net present when the resolution was carried, was, at all events, a consenting party to the selling of the block. The Goldfields Secretary : No. I deny it emphatically. Mr Reid : The chief charge of the member for Tuapekii, was that during a number of years only a certain quantity of land had been thrown open in his district. He thought the hon. member was wrong ; his (Mr Reid's) Government had thrown open 5,000 acres on Mr James Smith's run. If the hon. member went over the bluebooks, he would find that instead of his (Mr Reid's) Government only throwing open 5,000 acres, the quantity thrown open during that time was nearer 50,000 or 60,000 acres. The hon. member concluded by stating that he would treat with indifference the brand the member for Tuapeka placed upon him. The Goldfields Secretary : It is as much appreciated at Tuapeka as yours is at the Taieri. After some further discussion, the debate was adjourned till next day. j