Meeting of Local Bodies.

Thames Star, Volume XIV, Issue 4500, 7 June 1883, Page 2

Meeting of Local Bodies.

A meeting to discuss the desirableness of amalgamating: the Thames Borough Council with the Harbor Board was held last evening in the County Council Cham* bers. Present—His Worship the Mayor (presiding), Borough Crs Carpenter, Mennie, McGowan, Osborne, Speight, and Veale; County Crs Bagnall, Brodie, Bull Coutts, Deeble, Murdoch, and Porter. The members of the Harbor Board were all present amongst the above bodies, with the addition of Mr Price.

The Chairman explained that the meeting was called in consequence of a resolution passed by the Borough Council for the objrct mentioned.

Mr Speight explained his reasons for the steps he had taken in the matter. He thought we were over governed, aiid a lesser number of bodies could do all we required. He intended to propose " That, in the interests of the district, it is desirable that the Harbour Board should be incorporated with the Borough." Harbour matters should be looked after by the whole district; perhaps perfection would not be met with by this proposal, but it might mean an improvement. The Harbour Board had not rerenne or credit sufficient to do what it should, Its income was under £2000 a year. The Board had imported an expensive plant, they had borrowed about £6000, and had to pay 7 per cent, interest on it, and iioless some assistance was'given to them they could not pay their debts. They must increase the depth of water in front of the town, or their foreshore endowment would be valueless. He would divert municipal revenue for harbor im» provemenfs. The making of streets wa9 valueless when the district was retrograding ; unless steps were taken with a view to harbor improvements property will continue to lose value. It would pay the people to do without street improvements, and wade to their places of business ankle deepin mud, and apply their money to harbor works ; he did not wish any jealousy to be infused into the discussion, but wished the matter viewed in the interests of the district.

Cr Veale seconded the motion

Qr Porter said -the.amalgamation of the ■Borough and Harbor Board would be of very little benefit to the district. Harbor management was inexpensive, and nothing would be saved. He proposed "That,' in the opinion of this meeting, it is advi sable that.the Harbor Board and Borough Council merge with that portion of the County north of the Ohinemuri Biding." Thus would Ohinemuri people be enabled to do as they liked. A harbor was of no use without something going to it. Most of Ihe property at the Thames was leasehold, and the interests of present holders was >mall, There was a probability of a town springing up at Kopu, and this would' wipe tbe Thames out. The best way to do was to make one body of all the local ones. Cr Bull seconded this amendment.

Cr Bagnall wished the matter settled fairly on its merits. A similar conference had been held before without any result. He did not think the amalgamation of the Borough and Harbor Board would solve the difficulty. He could see that the Borough bad not a penny more than it needed, and could not spend money on Harbor works: He did not see that the Harbor belonged .to the Borou«h. Much larger interests existed outside of it. If, instead of trying to. satisfy the many claims made by persons who want harbours formed In various places, the Board had determined to form one, they would have been able \to provide sufficient for the whole district. He could not Hgree with the present proposal All the conflicting interests were in the Borough. Tararu, Shortiaud.. Grahamtown, and Eopu had all been advocated. Mr Porter's proposal would accomplish even more than Mr Speight's, and he thought it would be wise to uuite the whole under one body. <

Cr. McGowan raised a point as to whether the amendment could be received, as it dealt with another body. Cr Brodie asked what the Borough offered the County Council in exchange, if they handed over their harbor privileges. : Cr Osborne opposed both:resolution and amendment; if either were carried those who paid Harbor dues would be shut out. The mover of the resolution had. not shown that th« Borough either had or could get funds to carry out harbor works. The scheme looked well, but was impracticable. The Borough could not spare a penny, and he objected to the streets being neglected so that money could be thrown away on the mud-flats.

Cr McGowan thought the constitution of the Board was the cause of conflicting interests existing, and he believed that the Tararu scheme was the best.' The complaint of Mr Osborne that payers of dues would suffer was no argument against the motion. The practice of allowing interested persons on the Board was a curse to the system. The harbor charges here were a third lower than in other harbors, owing to those hating to pay them being allowed to fix them. He would support Mr Speight's proposal. Cr Carpenter did not think the- district was overgoverned; he believed in a division of labor. He thought the pro* posal a good one, as the credit of the Borough should be pledged to assist the harbor, and if necessary the Borough and County should combine and pledge their credit to enable the Harbor Bpsrd to obtain money. Mr Brodie agreed that there should be unity among the bodies, but had yet heard very little as to practical results from any of the speakers. He instanced.

the Port of Lyttelton, where there was ' the best shipping accommodation ia the Colony. Some of the members of thai Board were returned by Heathcote and other places near Christchurch, many miles distant from the harbor. At Wellington, one of our best harbors had been controlled for years by the City Fathers, who had proved themselves so incompetent to manage its affairs that about two years ago a Harbor Board had to be created. In Auckland, the best harbor of the Colony, Auckland, Ponsonby, Parnell, Northcote, and Devonport each returned the "gentlemen who governed Auckland harbor affairs, and the result was that each man understood local requirements, and they were well attended to accordingly. A councillor said they would pledge the Borough credit. He did not see what there was to pledge or hand over. If tho speaker meant the large loan on the water supply, the pro* posed loan of £10,000, with the special rate, and the overdraft of nearly £5,000; then the credit referred to meant nothing. The people were gradually getting into the country, and all those residing near rivers even to the head of navigation were as much or perhaps more interested in the Harbour than those residing here. As to Cr. Mennie's statement that the people here could have their own Harbour while the up country could have theirs elsewhere. Was it intended to levy black-mail on the up-coun-try residents, to support, the Thames port, by making them pay dues and charges when passing through the Thames harbor to their own harbor, as spoken of by Cr Mennie ? Regarding the mistakes of the past, he thought the greatest mistakes had been committed in attempting to make a harbor where nature had not intended one. He was since in accord with the statement'made by Dr. Kilgour, at a public meeting, in regard'to the improvement of the Shortland harbour He had no desire to throw cold water upon the proposal, but he did not think it had been gone about in the proper manner. For a member of the Borough Council to cause such a meeting to be called without anything tangible to place before it, was an insult to the County and also to the Borough, the latter because a resolution of that nature should have come from thai Mayor, after being calmly considered by the Borough Council. H.e neither agreed with the resolution nor the amendment. He agreed with a suggestion that had been thrown out by Cr Carpenter, viz., that a committee of three members from each body be appointed to settle the matter.

The Chairman coincided with Cr Speight's proposal. He hoped that the various bodies would have:worked harmoniously together, but the evening's performances had removed that idea.

Cr Speight replied, and in the course.of his remarks said that he offered no insult to the meeting, and Mr Brodie's assertion to that effect was " rank, arrant, humbug." Perhaps Mr Brodie did not know what an insult was. He considered Mr Brodie's behaviour was an endeavor to humbug the meeting.

Cr Brodie—" It's a lie." Cr Speight—" It's not a lie ; I am only expressing my opinion." . . - The Chairman ruled that it wasn't a lie, it was only an opinion. Cr Speight continued his reply to the arguments of Crs Osborne, Brodie, and others, and stated that he did not expect to see his resolution carried, but some radical change was absolutely necessary. A division showed 7 votes for the resolution, and 16 against. Cr Brodie, in moving a further amendment, thought Mr Speight should not impute motives to him, though it was plain he had some animus against him. The present proposal he thought was a clap-trap movement to gain popularity to be used hereafter. — [Crs Brodie and Speight here stated that they did not care anything for each other's opinions.] Cr Brodie's amendment was—"That a Committee, consisting of three members from the Harbor Board, Borough, and County Councils, be appointed by each of the respective bodies to bring up a report at an early date upon the best system of carrying out the functions of the bodies by a less number of governing bodies." . It was eventually arranged to combine the two proposals which read as follows : —".That, in the interest of the district, it is desirable that the Harbour Board and a portion of the Thames County be incorporated with the Borough, and that a committee of three members be appointed by each of the respective bodies to bring up a report at an early date."