PARLIAMENTARY.

Thames Star, Volume XII, Issue 3890, 17 June 1881, Page 2

PARLIAMENTARY.

(Pee Pbess Association.)

IJOtJSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Wellington, Thursday. Evening 1 Sitting. The House met at 7.30.

HOSPITAL AND CHARITABLE AID

BILL

The Hon Mr Hall moved the second read* ing of the Hospitals and Charitable Aid Bill. In doing so he explained and commented upon its provision. , ; .: :

Dr Wallis thought the bill was a too ambitious one. Charitable aid and hospital purposes should have been disjoined, and a gepirate measure prepared Dealing with each subject separately, 'n its present shape the bill meant fresh taxation, and the burden whs already made heavier thun it should be.

Mr Moss' also objected to the bill. The whole subject waa one which ought to be left in the hands of local bodies, and if properly organised, these bodies were perfectly competent to deal with it. He moved as an amend* ment that further consideration of the bill be adjourned, so as to gjve Government an opportunity to bring down a scheme of local administration. .

Mr Murray supported the amendment, Mr Shepherd said the amendment amounted to a vote of want of confidence. He did not concur in the adverse criticisms passed on the bill.

Mr Ballance complained that the bill pro* posed a poll tax to be imposed by bodies upon wbiph the persqna so tajed b r »4; n P representative. He had already shown that little dependence could be placed in the subsidies. Then he concluded that the local bodies were not in funds, and could not possibly contribute the share falling on them. They bad Hot funds enough to dafray the cost of works already devolving upon them. An amend* Bient of the constitution of tne local bodies, as they at present existed, would obviate the necessity for t-he creation of this new bodj proposed in the bjlj. The great fault of their administration was that they had too many local administrative bodies already. He was not diepo»cd to make ibis a political <Jtte»*

tion. He objected to the principle of the bill, because it was the thin edge of the wedge of •State pauperism. He would suggest' that the bill should be remodelled in tho direction ho had indicated. He also suggested that the amendment should be withdrawn, and the bill, 'after, its second reading, should be remodelled ■in committee.

Me Johnston said thu whole object of the bill.was to relieve this House of the trouble yf carrying out charitable aid.

Sir Q-eorge Grey wished to explain that he was in no degree responsible for the amendment. The member for Parnell had moved it on Jbiipwn responsibility. He did not ooncur in the opinion that this should not be considered a political question. It dealt with a subject of the highest political importance hub it ought not to be deemed a party question. He thought it was quite possible to deal with this question under a scheme of local self-government. Under an administration of that kind the Act would be much better as administered than otherwise. Instead of talking of compulsory relief, they should endeavor to abolish compulsory poverty. Our whole laws and administration tended to create a few rich persons to the impoverishment of the many. Under a pr p^r system there should be no poor persons in New Zealand. If a fair share of the public money was fairly distributed, there would be*-no want of employment, and consequently no poverty. Let the wealthy absentees, residing in England and elsewhere, give back what ttiey were entitled to do, and there would be no pojr. Was it fair that while the unearned increment remained untouched a poll tax should be imposed. They had been told that a class amongst us had come to that state of destitution when they must be assisted. He would say they had not come to that state : they h«d been driven to it. He hojed soon to have an opportunity, to bring forward a motion expressing sympathy with the suffering masses in the Home country, and also pledging themselves to tolerate no description of legislation in, this countiy that would countenance or encourage sued land, laws as had led to the sta'e of' affairs in Great Britain and Ireland. < Let the Government tear up this bill, and any that charitable institutions should be Supported out of the legitimate source of taxation—-the unearned increment. The last speaker had talked about relief afforded from this House. Was a poll tax upon the hard* working men or struggling deferred payment settler the description of relief that was to be afforded ? He hoped the bill he was about to ask leave to introduce would meet all the requirements of this class, and reader this bill unnecessary. He hoped the Government would withdraw this meiisure, and any that until lor*l self-government whs established they wou'd allow this question to remain in abeyance. The great objection to the bill was that one body could call upon another to impose taxes for deferring the cost of the system while the taxing body had no power or control over the spending body. He hoped the Governtr ent would/follow the course he proposed, and that the member for Parnell would, also withdraw his amendment. He would take up the whole question of local government in a right spirit.

Mr Wakefield said that this local government idea was a new found one for the hat speaker. .He told his constituents at the Thames only a few weeks ago that he would do away with all local government together, and have the colony governed from.this one chamber.' He: congratulated him on his con version to this new found!faith, and hoped he would not return agidn quite as sudaenly to his previous notions. He gave.no clear indication 'of how the system of charitable aid was to be provided for by local government,. He did not believe that he had considered thej question of local government sufficiently matured to enable him to bring down any schema on the point. Sir George Grey had never been a friend of looal selfgovernment, and he was about the last man they would, expect to propound -a remarkable proposal on that point. He could not not see that, the, bill wasr.being unduly pressed. All that was asked was to read it a second time, and plenty of.opportunity, would be granted to consider the matter fully. He agreed in'the opinion that this and other questions affecting locat matters should be postponed until they had a full statement of what Government intended to do in the matter of local administration. He meant by that, that, an Opportunity should be afforded for considering all' these ■• matters as' one scheme.. It was a mistake to think that they had in New Zaaland a pauper class analogous to that of England. The unemployed were either men who were unfitted to the colony, or elee they were men who, during the summer months, earned sufficient to keep them all the year round, but who, through I improvidence or miscalculation had neglected to provide for the dull season of the ye r. There were the poor, and it was nonsense to speak of a large able bodied paupor class in New Zealand. He admitted that a great deal more ought to be done by the wealthy (or the poor than was done. What was wanted was an organisation that would distribute assistance from the rich to the poor. A n organisation of that kind would do more good than any measure of this kind. If they bad t* proper system of .'ocal gorernrneufc, that would be quito sufficient for the-case. Ho oped Government would not think of pressing this measure until they had explained why they could not bring down local government or else tell them they were prepared to do it. He would usk them to pass the second reading on that distinct understanding. . . ■ Sir George Grey asked leave to make a personal explanation with regard to the alleged stitement on his part; that all local government should be abolished. Ha had made no such statement. , All that he did say was that he thought there should be ouly one Legislative Council, and that nominated land boards ahould be abolished.

Mr Qisborue approved of the principle of the bill, though he resarved to, h.iu)Bejf the right to criticiee its details. It wna a practicable question that they had to deal with, namely, how to provide for the eiok and destitute of the colony ; and he thought that the bill in question would generally secure that object. „'.','■■ Mr Pii.t thought the cost of 'charitable aid should be charged upon consolidated revenue. If it was the duty of the state to provide for the community—when in health, for instance, under their educational system it was their duty to provide for them in sickness. They had partly affirmed the principle in the establishment and administration of their lunatic asylums. Again, the colony bad : taken the laud fund, and if they could not make endowments, it was plainly their duty to defray the cost out of revenue. ,It was a matter requiring to be dealt-wjth at oncp, and he would therefore vote »gain3t the amendment. Mr STranson agreed that the administration of the Act was a duty devolving on Govern, meat. A fereat deal of the prevailing poverty was attributed to irregularities on the part of the men themselves, ■ who not only gained by these irregularities, but the Government. He would be glad to see all the money collected, from liquor revenue set apart for t^e maintenuuce of charitable aid., lunatic asylums, &c.

LITEE.

Captain Russell and Tomoana ' generally supported the bill and Messrs DeLautour, Harris, Kelly i Speight, and Lundon opposed it. Mr Hall obaraoterised Mr Mobs V motion as one. of waflt of copftden.ee, and be at somo length replied to the various objections urged against the measure. „ Mr, Moss asked, leave to withdraw bis amendment, which was refused, and it was then negatived on the voices. ;

Mr Montgomery spoke against, and Mr Levistam briefly in favour of, the bill,, which, was then read » second time, and ordered for committee for Jjejt Friday.