Evening Sitting.

Thames Star, Volume X, Issue 3409, 25 November 1879, Page 2

Evening Sitting.

The House resumed at 7 30. THE NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION. On the motion for leaving tha Chair to go into Committee of Supply, Mr Mncandrew said that he wanted to move a motion to the effect that the financial proposals were unsatisfactory. The expenditure would f«ll short of the revenue by £809,000. He was no adept at finance, and be would leave it to others to supply the details. He would only say that while a reckless statement was made on 16th October, that two millions were pledged, as the assertion was radically wrong, and its effect in the home market was to prejudice the finance of the colony. It might be taken for granted that the proposed expenditure exceeds the revenue. AH they had got to do was to raise the deficiency by taxation. He would have been better pleased if the proposal had been to reduce the expenditure. They would be told that the estimates were those of Ihe Government. That was not the case, they were estimates of the departments. All the Government proposed to do was to increase taxation. The present taxation was as much as the country could bear, and under no circumstances would it be right to increase the burden. We bad overrun the taxation for a youug community. He had said sufficient to show that the financial proposals were unsatisfactory. He complained that Government had done wrong in not bringing the Public Works Statement down. He did not blame the present Government. If any Government was to blame it was the continuous Government. They wero paying the penalty of hot blunders -first, the Public Works policy had been administered altogether different from what Sir J. Vogel intended; the other was that they had destroyed the best system of local selfgovernment. They were now called upon to remedy both of their blunders. It would take all their time to remedy these evils. He would simply move —That the Financial proposals of the Government were unsa'isfactory, and leave the question in the hands of the House. Mr Oliver accepted the motion, and would say that the financial proposals were unsatisfactory. Those wero left as a legacy by the late Government. They had been accused of creating heavy burdens on the working classes; tht-se proposals showed the contrary. They hopedthat they were desirous of making the burdens fair and equitable. Thi'y might have prepared a Jleer Tax Bill, but that would have been directed against the working classes. They had adopted the Estimates of thflir predecessors, and after civiug them nil information possible to give" them, they put them forward. When the proposal was made that the Estimates remain as they were, the Govern-, meat accepted their suggestion, despite the fact that the Estimates proposed a large increase. The liabilities of the colony had nearly absorbed the whole of the £5.000,000 loan. If the late Government kept office six months longer, they would have had to resort to a policy of repudiation. He agreed that in the Educational schemes they had been far too extravagant; but he felt that the time had come when it would be necessary to revert to a system already, in vogue, as the ouly remedy towards getting out of the difficulty. Mr Montgomery contended that the blame cast upon the late Government for present financial difficulties was not deserved. He quoted the financial

Statutes, from which he argued that it was unfair to insist that special difficulties had been attributable to the late Government- The fact was, they had not resolred on taxati- n soon enough. He did not defend the late Government. Had they imposed a fair share of taxation, they would not now hare had to face the present difficulties with which they were met. The difficulty, was due to the system of finance inaugurated some years ago. Kegarding tho Estimates now before the House, he objected that they did not foreshadow a policy of economy. Col. Trimble said that between the Government and Opposition the difference was this : the one said that they ought to slur over the difficulty, end the' other proposed to meet it boldly. By following the latter counsel he nrgued that, in the money market, the position would be accepted much more graciously. Difficulties had been going on for years, yet no attempt had been made by the mover of the motion to meet these difficulties by an increase of taxation. In that case he (Mr Mucandrew) ought to ba more careful in making these assertions. The estimates were said to be larger, than they were before. The fact, however, wag before them that there were estima'es of the late Govern men fc which showed that no attempt was proposed by the late Government to meet the difficulty. To him it appeared that an unvarnished tale of tho present position of affairs had been rendered. ~>*~% Mr Thomson said they wore just reap- J 1 ing the fruits of the course they had been pursuing for years past. Tho debt of the colony would very shortly be between 28 and 29 millions of money with interest and sinking fund to the tune of one half million per annum. Seven years ago the debt of the colony was only 7| millions, with half a million interest and sinking fund. They now find that the customs revenue, etc., is decreasing, so that the time had arrived when it was absolutely necessary for them to consider their position and prospects. They had spent at the rate of one million per annum and tendency was to increase it to £2,000,000. The situaiioi was a critical one. He believed in direct taxation, and to that extent ho believed the proposals of Ihe present Government had not considered the .mutter as they ought to have done. They had not in the slightest degree studied economy. They ought to have studied retrenchment and thereby have reduced the taxation. Had he done so the tax might have been reduced to |d instead of Id as proposed. Professional men ought to have been asked to contribute something, and the unimproved lands ought to have been asked to do something towards the taxation of the country. ... • . ; , Sir George Qrey_ contended that they ought to have initiated a system of retrenchment, and by way of making a commencement, they ought to have begun by reducing the salary of Governor, then the salaries of Ministers. No proposal of that kind had been . made. They told them the deficiency was between £800,000 and £900,000. Land was the source of all properly, and as such it ought to be tke principal item of taxation. The system of taxation' proposed had no fairness in it, and was not suited to the conditions of the country. The proposal was that everything should be taxed : everything that pleased the eye, and improved tho understanding. In America, for example, which it wag stated they were to follow, books and fine arts were exempt from taxation. That law alone aimed at all the progress in New Zealand ; that was to strike in the - advancement of the country." He hoped the country would not commit itself, as a judiciously arranged income tax, quite sufficient for the requirements, could be raised. Then, again, by a reduetidniofthe salaries of agents a saving might bo effected by these means, and the colony could savo its credit and show in a bold manner it was prepared to meet the exigencies of the case. In this as in other countries a different system of iland - law must be enacted so as to prevent the acquisition of large tracts of land by mere increase of population. Those who occupied the large tracts of land were the fair and legitimate objects of taxation, and yet they were told the land tax was to be merged into the property tax. Th# two things were quite distinct. He felt that they were entitled to say to the Government that your proposals are unsatisfactory, and that another system of taxation was demanded. The Dunedin Chamber of Commerce had pronoun*** against the proposal, and when it became more fully known, he believed '©thS# places would be unanimous in prouncing in the same direction. ■"; : .•■;•*-vi.Dr Wallis moved the adjournment of the debate. """' ;:''":' ■'"v 'V ':''T'">:U

Major Atkinson described the attack made upon Government aa a most meagre oue. Sir George Grey had told them the present system of education Wat not free. The Government had no idea of altering the system as it existed, and the proposal carae alone, from'the leader of the Opposition, and as to the lato Minister for Lands, they.simply proposed to adopt the proposal. They had - been told by the Opposition that the deficiency would be reduced, but had not told how the leader of the Opposition had proposed the reduction, placing police charged bit' counties. What they said was that the* land only would not be taxed, but the contrary; that not only land but that other sources of income should be taxed. They had been told that this w« a tax on imprisonments. Now in .4Kg*^ : income tax that was altogether indispeu/ sible. He quoted from the Financial Statement to show that there was a well defined intention on the part of the Government to retrench. He was bound, to conclude that the estimates had beea carefully considered by the individual* members of the latb Ministry. A sam of £1,600.000 for new works was pro* posed by the mover of motion, and; yet he talked about exigencies of situation. JCd* reason was given for adopting the resolution. The Government quite agreed that the proposals wore unsatisfactory, but they were the very best that: could t bo made in the circumstances.. -No> : more satisfactory mode of . dealing.with the finance had been proposed. Th«; propositions of motion inigbi hare told, thorn how they proposed to make up the deficiency on the counter scheme,"or else ' it was the duty of the House to hare nothing to say to the motion... tat* Treasurer Ballaaca and tho then Minister for Pabiic Works had misled the country in the matter of finance-in 1878.*' One led them to believe he would have: £100,000 to good, and the other three*' quarters of amilliion. These gentlemen were culpable to the. last do^rve^-as,., when they found they had.urisealcalated. * they should hare called parliament at once together. He held these gentlemen to be responsible for the difficulty, and at auch itrAKtAil_Hiil^^t^^A^i^b^^Mßli^Hl^^^^^^^^^

Mr Moss argued there v/as an increase of 50 per cent, on the ordinary requirements of lifo, which ho argued was an unfair burden imposed oa (Ito working classes. There were signs that (hoy had already exhausted tho elforts of taxation. He contended that any attempt to innrfuso taxation would lead to disastrous results. The direct taxation had bo en promised years ago, and was not a eroaiimi of tlu< present Government. Ho conjured thorn not to add anything to the customs revenue. Let tho Government bring down the property tax, but let the customs duties remain as they were. !!<• would vote for the motion. Tho question was then pnt that the debate be adjourned aud was negatived on the voices. Mr Turubull spoke in favour of tho motion. Mr George moved the adjournment of the House. Major Atkinson hoped the House would come to a conclusion at once. Mr Shrimski spoke in favour of the adjournment to afford Mr Ballance an opportunity of replying. Mr McLeau urged the necessity that the debate should be brought to a vote and Mr Stewart spoke in favour of the j adjournment. ; An attempt vms made on the motion of Mr.Hnmlin to count out. A Jlou<e, however, was collected, and the debate proceeded.

(Puk Pjiess Agency.)