PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Colonist, Issue 37, 26 February 1858, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesoay, February 23rd. The Speaker took the chair at 10 minutes past 5 o'clock. '

The minutes of the two previous meetings of Council were read and agreed to. Mr. Marsobn took his seat as a member of Waimea East, in the room of John Ward, Esq., resigned.

The Speaker read>a despatch from the Colonial Secretary transmitting a copy of despatch from . her Majesty's Secretary for the Colonies, covering a copy of an act of the Imperial Parliament, intituled "An Act to guarantee,the loan of half-a-million for the service of Zealand." - PETITION. Mr. Nicholson presented a memorial from certain inhabitants of the district of Massacre Bay, on the subject of the roads in that district. Memorial read and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Sharp's motion as to " the mode of conducting elections," was for the present dropped. Mr. Kelling moved—" That this Council is of opinion, on looking to the great increase of population, and the healthy and prosperous state-of.-the. colony^ and consequently of the large revenue now derived from the Customs, that the amount paid by the General Government to the province from the Customs revenue should be increased from three-eighths, as now paid, to at least one-half." Mr. Sharp seconded the motion, which was put to the house and agreed to.

MESSAGES FROM HIS HONOR THE SU-

PERINTENDENT,

No. s—Transmitting information respecting the establishment of a ferry across the Wairau River.

No. 6—Transmitting copy of memorial from certain inhabitants of Nelson relative to the exploration of the province. The Provincial Solicitor moved—" For leave to bring in a bill to repeal the Auctioneers' Ordinance, and the Auctioneers' Amendment Ordinance, and to make other provisions in lieu thereof."

Mr. Domett seconded the motion. Agreed to. Bill read a first time and ordered to lie on the table. ~

The Provincial Solicitor moved the second reading of the Dog Nuisance Bill. ~, ■■.;•■ -Mi*. Kelling seconded the motion. ';". _..... . The House then went into committee on the bill; Dr. Renwick in the chair.

After various alterations and amendments, the committee reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. Mr. Elliott moved—"That a Select Committee be appointed, with liberty to call for evidence, to report upon the best system of inter-provincial postal communication, so as to give the whole-pro-vince the benefit of an improved mail service ;fueh committee to consist of the Provincial Secretary, Mr. Baigent, Mr. Parker, Mr. Nicholson, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Robinson, and the mover. Dr. Monro seconded the motion, which was put and passed. , ; Council adjourned at 9 o'clock. :

Wednesday, February 24th. The Speaker took the chair at 10 minutes past 5 o'clock. The minutes of the previous evening having been read, were put to the House and passed. MESSAGES FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT. No. 7 —Transmitting'a statement of the receipts and expenditure of the Immigration Commissioners, as well as their report for 1857., Also a return showing the amount of passage money owing the Immigration Commissioners by assisted immigrants, with the names of the defaulters and their sureties. No. B—Transmitting" a refcurn; showing' the amount of money spent on public works in each district of this Province from the Ist January to the 31st December, 1857. \ No. 9—Transmitting a return of all sums received for postage on newspapers since the recent imposition of a charge for the transmission of newspapers by post in this province.-

PETITION. Dr. Monro presented a memorial from certain inhabitants of the town of Nelson, &c, praying .pat a piece of ground in Trafalgar^square, be reserved for the health and comfort of the town, and that it be not built on. ** To the Honorable the Provincial Council of Nelson. The Memorial of the undersigned residents in "the Town of Nelson and elsewhere, • Bespectfully sheweth, — 1. That your Memorialists have learnt with regret that a portion of Trafalgar-square has been conveyed by his Excellency Sir George Grey, the late Governor of the Colony, to the Trustees of the Ne.son Trust Funds. 2. That this is the second grant of land out of this which your memorialists believe was originally intended to be an open square: the first portion having been granted some years ago to the Church of England, being in fact, the site upon which their building has been erected. 3. That the Trustees of the Nelson Trust Funds have not (as your memorialists are informed) taken any steps towards actual, occupation or beneficial en-* joyment of the land thus granted to them ; and that, therefore, it might yet be possible to give them in some other part of the province, a portion of land of equivalent value. .

4. That your memorialists conceive that, on the one hand it would be a serious injury to the appearance and hoalthfulness of the town were Trafrtlyarsquare to be built upon; while; on the other hand, if preserved for the purpose of public1 recreation, a small outlay might render it highly attractive and ornamental to the town. >

5. That your memorialists beg earnestly to impress upon your honourable body their conviction of the great desirableness of securing (whi;e there is yet time to,do so) for the inhabitants of a town increasing in population, the advantages of open spaces of this nature, at once beautiful to look upon, and sources of health and recreation. •.■•■■> .

6. That your' memorialists'th'6reft)re respectfully request that your honourable body will be pleased to take such steps as may seem, to you calculated to further this object.

And your memorialists as in, duty bound will ever pray.

Here follow the signatures of 110 persons,

Seconded by Mr. Mack ay,

Memorial read and ordered to lie on the table.

Dr. Monro gave notice that he would move on Thursday—" That it is the opinion of this Council, that the comfort, health, and appearance' of the town of Nelson will be much promoted by maintaining Trafalgar-square, with the exception of course of that portion granted to the Church of England, in the condition of an open space unoccupied by buildings; and that it is desirable to take steps, consistent with equitable dealing, for the resumption of the -land in Trafalgar-square, granted by Sir George Grey .to the Trustees of the Nelson Trust Funds."

Mr. Kelling gave notice that he would move on Thursday—" The appointment of a Committee to take into consideration the Country Roads Act; the committee to consist of the Speaker, Mr. Wells, Mr. M'Rae, Mr. Baigent, Mr. Parker, Dr. Monro,. Mr. Saunders, and the mover." Mr. Saundkrs' moved—" That the conduct of the late Trustees of the Nelson Trust Funds, in vesting those funds in the hands'of themselves, and their nominees, without any reference or appeal to the duly-qualified electors under the Nelsou Trust Funds Act, is a violation of the undoubted right of those electors, a flagrant breach of the confidence reposed in those Trustees, and a mal-appropriation of public money, that calls for an expression of disapprobation from this Council, and is one to which the earliest attention of the General Assembly should- be most earnestly and respectfully requested." He regretted that his speaking apparatus was in such very bad condition that it would be with feelings by no means pleasant either to himself or the Council, that he should attempt to make a few observations upon the important motion which had so long stood in his name. He believed that no person would dispute the right of a body of electors specially constituted for that purpose by an Act of the House of Representatives, to exercise some control over the manner in which the Nelson Trust Funds should be expended ; nor would it be necessary for him to enter into any arguments to convince the Council that a body of gentlemen—at first elected to adminster those funds for three years, and who at the exijii-atioii'of that period had formed themselves into something very like a permanent and irresponsible body, and taken the greater part of these funds with them into their new capacity,—had both abused the power committed to them, and had most unjustly deprived their constituents of a right which it was evidently the intention of the House of Representatives to have conferred upon them. He could never understand why some persons appeared to think that the origirial land-purchasers had- some exclusive and peculiar right of control over the Nelson funds. Although, an original land purchaser himself, he did not at the time he paid his money to the New Zealand Company, suppose for one moment that he should be allowed any exclusive right to control or to occupy the roads, or the schools, or the steamers, the churches ,or , the chapels to be obtained by the money which he had paid for land which he had now' received, and which had been increased in value by having such very desirable things in its neighbourhood. He shewed that the bill contained internal evidence that it was intended to exist beyond three years, although the piece of special pleading called a report attempted to show otherwise. The omission in the bill of any provision to elect another set of trustees at the expiration of the three years for which the first trustees were elected, was evidently an unintentional omission, in other words a blunder, and one of the first magnitude: But had the late trustees been disposed to carry out the spirit of the Act, and to deal honestly with the electors, they could very easily have it. Had they resigned half at a time before the expiration of their legal term, the Act contained abundant provision by which they could have appealed to the public for an expression of opinion upon their past proceedings. But the real honest fact was that these gentlemen knew the opinions of the public very well, and knowing them they were determined to' place themselves^ beyond their reach. They knew that the public generally did not approve of the exclusive character which the trustees had given to the school; that they would rather pay ,£3O than £60 for the educatiori'of their children, and were anxious to appoint trustees' wln> would administer the College funds,in such a_ manner that the public generally would derive some benefit from them. And knowing all this they adopted a most extraordinary,andhe thought' a most reprehensible method by which they could' set the electors at defiance, treat theTr'iiripertinent and ignorant, opinions with contempt^ and practically place the funds for ever beyond their control. Mr. Pahker seconded the motion.

: Dr. Monro said as he was known to be one of the trustees of the Trust Funds he could not ailow. the'remarks from Mr, Saunders to pass without some remark. Mr. Saunders was very fond of getting up resolutions to make speeches upon. It would be very easy to show that the remarks made by Ins hon. friend opposite were very much distorted. He then took up the particulars of the motion throughout, in refutation of the arguments of Mr. Saunders.

Mr. M'Rae said If Mr. Saunders would leave out the word"-flagrant," and other strong languago mentioned in the motion, he would support it. .■•'•■ . . ' •■"'■■.■"..

Mr. Kelling said he considered the trustees were elected by the public in the same manner as hon. members present were, and if the couducting of the college was not satisfactory to the public, let the public elect other trustees : he considered the Council had no right to pass auy censure. ; Mr. Saunders replied: He had not, as Dr. Monro appeared to suppose, mistaken the powers conferred upon the .lately, created "Gpvernqrsr' He was perfectly aware .that, the late trustees had riot, because they could' hot, confer all their powers upon this select body of nine. But- so far as the college fund was concerned,- they had done; whit; amounted to very much the same thing—l hey had; given them all, or very nearly all, the money and all the property. BiV Monro had said that he (Mr. Saunders) and a'great portion of the electors had wished to '..■ appropriate the ; college "funds'! to schools or to education of a lower.'character. So far as he was concerned nothing covild bo a greater mistake, On the contrary, one great fault which lie found with the late trustees! conduct was that

the character of the:education in their so-called college was not high enough. Until very recently they had not even' made any arrangement for teaching the French language. He would- yield to; ■ no man in a sincere and earnest desire to' see a - a high standard of education placed within the reach of every child in the province; and it waa absurd for Dr. Monro to infer that because he (Mr. Saunders) wished, the advantage of college education to be widely extended," that he necessarily wished it to be of a low description. He believed it was as much the duty of the trustees to niake arrangements for boarding the boys as for educating them, and unless they did so, none but inhabitants of the town of Nelson would ever'derive any advantage from the funds. As to the exhibitions as they were called, • or the £15 to be given to some country boys and not to others, they were the most "abominable things connected with the whole affair. 1 'hey left a country parent no alternative but to submit to an act of injustice, or to commit an act of meanness, to pay £15 more for his child than most other parents did, or to find out all the little historical mysteries connected with the affair, or perhaps to come cap in hand to these great ."Governors," or to the schoolmaster appointed by them, and ask them to be so kind as to allow them £15. Before he would submit either to the one or the other of these things he would (much as he prized the education of his children) send them to the commonest school in the place, or to any school where they should be treated neither better nor worse than the children of other persons. Ths House divided. For the motion 5, against it 14.'.' Motion lost.

Mr. Baigbnt asked leave to allow the motion standing in his name to staud over until Friday next., Leave granted. Mr. Sharp moved—"That, in the opinion of this Council, no act to be,'introduced by the General Assembly, nor any fresh regulations to bo promulgated by his Excellency the Governor under the provisions of the Constitution Act, as to the mode of conducting elections, will be complete, or suit the requirements of the times, that does not contain some provisions therein for taking the votes at elections by ballot." In bringing before the Council the motion standing in his name in its present shape, he would wish to state, aU'-'Mgh perhaps it might be known to the majoritj o; the members present, that the Council possesses no legislative functions.or powers to interfere with or alter the present regulations as to elections and so forth; arid therefore the only object of the motion - was to affirm the principle, and by that means possibly strengthen the hands of any "Ministry that would attempt to give it effect; for he had heard on very good authority that-it was the intention of the present Government to attempt to introduce the system either in some aot or regulation for the better management of the whole conduct of registration' and voting. Members present need * not think that he was going to tire their patience with a long speech, as the subject was one which had been so thoroughly exhausted both in England and elsewhere, by men of greater ability than any possibly there, that it would be only'taking up the time of the Council to repeat the arguments now, and he should therefore merely advance a few reasons' why he thought the ballot would be advantageous. In the first place, it would prove a stop to bribery, to intimidation, and to those other means which were employed by the wealthy and others to coerce voters. Secondly: It would also prevent those nois3 r and uproarious seems and unpleasant disturbances which inevitably attend all elections under the present system; it would not put a stop as it now did to business, but would enable a voter to go quietly to the polling-place, record his vote, and then return to resume his usual avocation. Thirdly: It would prevent those irritations aud quarrelling which always will and always must, as long as human .nature - was like what it was (and even he himself must confess to sharing it to some extent), attend elections, particularly general elections, carried on with that party-feeling'which" exists at that time. The principle had already been affirmed by the late Council whea the mode of electing members of the Roads Board under the Roads Act was und t consideration; and it had also been affirmed by a very large ; majqrity at"one" of the 'largest meetings that had ever taken place in 'Nelson, some six or seven years back, when .the late Superintendent Mr. Stafford, the present one Mr". Robinson, Mr. Elliott, and Mr. Travers, both members of the General Assembly now, addressed that meeting in favour of the system, and he would now read the system adopted in. Victoria, (re.id). This mode had been successfully tried in Victoria where it had been in' operation some' three year?, and also in Tasmania, and he believed is by this time also in New South, Wales,"and an additional argument to any that had been'used before was this, that it has proved to be a protect o 1 to voters, inasmuch as at two elections which he would mention, viz., at South Melbourne and at We3tport, two very large constituencies in Victoria, at the first only twelve,-and at the last only one out of several thousand electors failed to record their votes; and this was very different to anything which has ever taken place under the present voting system either in Australia or he might say here, where, if not hundreds, there were scores who never record their votes at all. He should not take up the time of the Council any longer now, leaving anything else he. might wish to say in reply. Mr. Simmonds in seconding the motion said he had always supported the ballot where he had an opportunity. ": .... Dr. Monro entirely disagreed with the motion. If secret voting was once introduced all free discussion would be at an end. He believed in some cases there may be intimidation shown towards, parties voting, but he thought them very rare' indeed. :

Mr. Elliott should support the question now before the Council. He accepted the ballot as the lesser evil. He could not see why persons holding independent positions should' not' exercise that right which the British law allowed them. Mr. Mackay said he could not give a silent vote. He had seen so many occasions in which the ballot was used, he should support it. . He. was glad to see that the hon. member, had brought the motion forward.

: Mr. Eban said he rose to support the motion inasmuch as he greatly approved of the ballot. He thought, with the hon. mover, it would be preventive, of electoral-bribery and quarrels, intemperance and other similar evils. It was true, ceitninly, the manlier of open voting here was superior to what was formerly in vogue in England, but it was not sufficiently protective to timid and dependent persons. Men in independent""positions, of enlarged and courageous minds, might brave opposition . and publicly give their open suffrages; but mdl- ; viduals less favored by nature, education, or encouraging circumstances, needed to be protected in the e&ercige of their rights. . What was easy with those who enjoyed assurance from full pockets or popular habits was often difficult to others who might lose or bo sensibly injured by an. avowal of their intentions and votes as electors. The ballot was a shield to all so situated. An hon. member opposite, Dr. Monro, had represented secret voting as pernicious to the peculiar manliness of the English character, and as being un-English, Hurtful it could not be ; for it enabled true and honorable parties to act according to the' unfettered dictates of reason and conscience. If it was un-English, as he (Mr. Eban) feared it unfortunately was, it was because British freedom had not as yet achieved one of its dearest benefits and best results. The hon.member opposite attempted to shew the ballot as a hiuderance to free discussion that noble peculiarity and distinction of Britons. Herein, however, he was sadly mistaken; for the very reverse was the' only probability. Besides, in voting, discussion had nothing to do. As the; other hon. member fjr Nelson, Mr. Mackay, had correctly stated^ all that kind of employment is always ended ere the voting commences. It is not, said he, the voter - that discusses—lie only votes when the.speaking is - suspended or over. Dr. Monro had read io the Council the opinions of reviewers : he (Mr. Eban) 1 * cared not for such authorities, in this instance; for- • their;remarks were" without argumentation ; they "displayed nothing worthy of the name of argu-" ment. ( In fact, nover yet had any-reasoning against ...the. ballot deserved serious refutation; it was" really worthless, utterly without value. All the fine observations about the public spirit of the British might partially apply to highly

educated and strongly constituted mmds, men of nerve morally, but the retiring, diffident labourers ivud y e oman even of this country had been known to give way and stoop from their principles for want of firmness. Here such individuals were, in proportion to their number, under less temptation than similar persons elsewhere; but he had seen some of these falsify their promises either through weakness of purpose or the power of interest. Talk of secret voting and its ignoble consequences! What are these in comparison with open promises of support, and then a cringing, creeping, departure from them, so as, by forfeited pledges, to secretly stab the conscience—for fear of offending the powerful ? Or the degradation of having to look in the face of an accusing spirit, rather than displease an employer ? That surely was unfriendly to liberty ; but that was one of the effects of the vaunted open voting. Secrecy of the ballot injurious! There never was a greater error. Did 'it riot shield the conscience, and keep it free ? Did it not shelter truth, and preserve it unshackled ? Did it not defend the liberty of honor, and save its integrity ? its very secrecy was the safeguard of liberty ; for by it all that is noblest in every freeman's nature, is sacredly kept from harm. It had been said that at Lloyds, the Bank of England, and similar establishments, the ballot is employed. He (Mr. Eban) would also add, that in the best clubs, literary institutions, and, in fact, amongst the greatest and most impartial of associations, the principle lie would support had long been in effective and beneficial play. Why did bodies of men take refuge under the ballot? Because it held them in security from unkindness and annoyance ; it cherished the concord of those who without it would be involved in difficulties. If, then, it so befriended parties in important situations or positions, let kindred benefits be imparted to all our fellow-settlers, so as especially to assist great numbers who pressingly require them. Entertaining these views, he would vote for the motion. Mr. Wells thought it was a simple and quiet method in conducting elections, and should support the motion. Mr. Saunders said the subject had been so fully discussed, and Dr. Monro so fully refuted that it would be cowardly on his part to add more. He entirely agreed with the question before the House, and thought the ballot highly favourable. Mr. M'Rae said he would have voted for Mr. Sharp's motion if in his opinion it did not degrade the British nation. He should vote with the opposition. Mr. Sharp, in reply, said: Members in addressing the House had already replied to most of the arguments against the Ballot made use of by Dr. Monro. That gentleman had told them that as respects the good order and quietness which would attend the mode of voting by ballot, it would bear no comparison to the quiet and order that would result if there were no elections at all, but there he stopped ; he forgot to tell them the comparison that would exist as to order between the open voting system and this. He also quotes largely from Toulmein Smith, an author who wrote, amongst other things, against the fallacies of this so-called panacea; but he (Mr. Sharp) would also quote from an equally good authority, viz., " The Westminster Review," in favour of the ballot system—

" The writer freely answers the futile objections to the ballot, viz., that it is un-English. Some say the ballot is not English. Why not English, we ask ? If the ballot be good, and English is not applicable to it, then English is not applicable to a good thing. Is the •word English only applicable to bribery, suborning, false swearing, plundering, drunkenness, and dissolute conduct of every kind ? This is nonsense, and people will no longer be gulled with nonsense. Another objection was that it would not serve the ends sought, and that it would prove a failure. The persons who used this argument were opposed altogether to their allies, who charge the ballot with the sin of secrecy. The ballot wou'd cause- secrecy, says one, and secrecy is bad. The ballot would fail in ensuring secrecy, says another, and, therefore, it is worthless; and these are the contradictions ahwys found when a bad cause had to be upheld," &c , &c.

Dr. Monro also says that it would stifle ali discussion ; but he must have forgotten that America, where the voting is by ballot, is famous for the amount of discussion and talk that ensues at every election ; and, therefore, this system does anything but stifle discussion. Again, he states that the vo.ter is not responsible to himself!, but to the public. (No, no.) The lion, gentleman says No; but, at any rate, if he did not make use of it as an argument, he mentioned it in the same way that he (Mr. Sharp) inferred he used it. He maintained that the voter was responsible to no one but himBelf and his own conscience. Supposing, as in open voting it frequently took place, a voter is canvassed, and he keeps his opinion and his intended vote to himself (as he ought to do), and it is only known to the public when recorded, can the public make him alter his vote ? Of course not ; and, therefore, why should not every one, who, perhaps, may not be quite so independent, or who, like the honorable gentleman or himself, may not care who knows how he intended voting. Neither Dr. Monro nor himself could tell where the shoe pinched others, but from what he had seen he was convinced that the ballot was necessary in this Province. The House divided with the following result:— Ayes. Noes. Mr. Saundera Mr. Baigent Eban ' M'Rae Simmonda " Nicholson Parker Dr. Monro • Dr. Kenwick Mr. Curtis . Mr. Marsdeu Sharp Kelling Mackay Robinson Elliott Wells ' The Provincial Solicitor and Provincial Secretary declined voting. • Mr. Elliott moved the appointment of a Furnishing Committee, to consist of the Speaker, the Provincial Secretary, Mr. Curtis, Mr. Parker, and the mover. ; Mr. M'Rae seconded the motion. - Agreed to. The Provincial Secretary moved—"That the House go into committee on the Nelson Gold Fields Administration of Justiceßillrproposed to be submitted, under a resolution of the Provincial Council, to the General Assembly.] Clauses No. 1-to 23 were read and agreed to. Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to Bit again on Thursday. Council adjourned at 10 o'clock.

.Rosseau's Dream is an air extracted from Jean Jacques Rosseau's opera, 'Le Devin dv Village.' In the original it is a pantomime tune, without words, and the name of 'Rosseau's Dream' ■was first given to it in print, by J. B. Cramer. The English words, ' Now, while eve's 30ft shadows blending,' were written to the air by Wm. Ball. Some organists (acting upon the old Puritan principle of ' not letting the Devil have all the pretty tunes') occasionally employed it as a psalm or hymn tune. -Mb. Strickxand, a noted actor of old men's parts, and husband of the well-known "Fanny Strickland," has followed the example of Mr. Sheridan Knowles, by becoming a preacher of the gospel. He is making a sensation in the neighbourhood of New York. Tom's Dog Story.-—Our young friend, Tom C s, tells this as an actual occurrence on his plantation a few days since :--' An old hound of his contrived to fall into the well, which is about forty feet -deep.. The negro men were all afield, and Tom, not liking to descend himself, let down the bucket in the hope of tangling the dog in it, or giving him a chance, to sustain himself by it till he cauld get a hand to send down. Unfortunately the bucket became disengaged from the rope, when oiir friend drew up the latter, and making a noose in the end, let it down again, hoping to get it over old Holla. This failed, but the dog seized the end of the rope with his mouth, and his master raised him some thirty feet, when Rolla'a hold broke, and, of course, he fell back. Again the rope was let down to him, and taking better hold next time, b.3 was safely hauled out of the well.' Thi3 story is verified by'such evidences as makes it indisput ible. It is one of the best illustrations of the sagacity of the dog that we have lately heard.— Montgomery Mall*