Deputation to Sir George Grey.

Te Aroha News, Volume V, Issue 210, 9 July 1887, Page 4

Deputation to Sir George Grey.

Auckland, July 0. Sir George Grey was interviewed at the Northern Club last evening by a deputation from the Industrial Association, who weio anxious to confer with him relative to the languishing state of industries in the colony, and to obtain a cleaver exposition of his views on the question of protection than was given at the meeting in the City Hall last Friday week. The deputation consisted of Mr G. Fraser (President of the Association), Messrs J. Bell, T. (See and J. Ma,on. Mr Fraser introduced the busmen of the deputation, and in doing po said the reason why they had met Sir George that evening was in consequence of their committee thinking that in- the address in the City Hall he did not express him&elf a« inclined to favour their Industrial Association, or the objects which it had in view. They rleciied Co have a dear undei standing with him on the matter, and they theiefoie pro- : pobed to explain their views, and hear whether they tended in the same dnection as those of Sir George. What they weiv stming to obtain was a mote equal diisnibution of wealth. One thing ►Sir George hnd said relathe to Geimany had excited some lemark. His wOl (U weie something to this effect : that in Germany, where protection is rampant, , nmtteis"wero not improved, and were, indeed, hauler. That would lead one to suppose did', protection was not going to be a euie lor our diilieulties. Xow, thv.y thought that there wa» something in the nature of the laws ofGeimany dilknent to what exists heie, and that tiii.s would account for the want of success in that country. With the \iew of getting some information on this subject, they had in\ited their secretary to bo picsent, so that he might explain this mode of li\ ing and customs of the (reraiaiw. He h.ui, however, been unable to be piesent. They, however, deshcJ. to give bir Gyoige Giey some information inspecting the en cu instance* of this- countiy which, they belie\ed, would show that pi oteetion would lead us out ot our difficulties. This question of protection \va? a great one, and looking at it here it wu.s our duty to do the best lor ourseh es. Th-ey had to look at w hat had been done in the mother country. He looked on Great Britain as a pattern to a-11 countries in the matter of n to tra/le, and the parent of industries. She had everything in her favour, with the world as a market for her manufactuiea. Industries increased rapidly, and the implements in steam navigation, &c, eau.sed a tiemendous demand for her manufactures. If there had been no free trade, Le belie\ ed that demand would have been equally good. The repeal ot the Corn Law? had done good, and he believed that this was the only way in which England had gained by her free trade policy, because it meant a 1 eduction in rents aad a reduction in the price of food. As far as manufactures went, the had the whole work] as a market for tb/jm, and even if free trade was good for England, it was not the same heie. Biiiexent circumstances existed in this colony, and woikmen here were in a better I posjtum than in England, where they had only enough to keep themselves alive. 'They .helped to make England's greatness, and all they got was enough io keep themt> from week to week. When other tmiuiirics, educated by England, began to produce for themselves, tivese workmen ■ were .throw n out of employment, and only haAin^r had enough to live upon, were com]»elLad.fo do as best they could, Here in this colony things were diilauent. Workmen, when they could get .employment, earned feuliicieut to keep theraeelves and at the cfcame time to lay by something for the future. Now, they wanted to maintain that state of things for the future. Money being at two to live per cewt. in the old CGuxitry,, and wages about 3Q*>, the wages in this vcountry were not utu'ea«onable seeing; that .money was from eigkt ito ten per ce»i. Aloney and labour tkub got their share, .and the division was ivctf unreasonable. 'Hhey desired that this should be continued. The population of tbJ3 country was i&qw to a great extent of working .men, and the nxanufactueers could not maintain the rate of wages iiUat is now claimad .ituless they got some kelp in that direction. We must shut out manufactured articles produced at a cheap rate with long hours and low wages. They thought workmen wcr« entitled to the present jvv^ges so long as money remainedattheptfeseaxtyjricee. If they did take the manufactures p?Qdluced by other countries at lower prices., .they were depriving the colonist who pafti the interest <s£ tixe-^aiployment that beWg«d to him. They tb.Q;ight it right and proj^.* for the sake oit the, oj3un try to foster and $rotept industries,, ,to encourage those ta<tw starting, and to frTotect others already .in existence. W^^jould keep our own working classes, who .otherwise must go dkewhere. The agricultural and manufacturing industries were dqgsndent on each GtJher,, ,-and one would n«i. succeed without the »p6her. Those were j£s views and the ideae the Association. Mr Mason though sieir President would hfrxa touched on tkeiact that for every LlO9 worth of machinsiy, LB5 was spent in Jahottr. If that labour was' employed in otjio/ countries, it was «fif no useto us ; but if here, then we had hip money and the inaelwjiery too. The injyjlnsic value of the material was small, labo&r being the great item. Mr Fraser added that i^iis was quite correct. Then again, the m/Kjey thus spent passed fro?n hand to hand .betweon the tailor, hatter, baker and butc&er, and was turned over ,and over again. Bat when the mone} went .out of the country it was done wibh. The gr<gat thing was the circulation of the money awongst ourselves. We have the raw materials necessary to supply nearly all our wants. When they spoke of protection, they did not mean to shut out things which wecoukl notmake for ourselves for years to come. Anyone looking into the matter would see that the present wag a bad time for .England. Every country was producing what it required j us they did in Great Britain. The outlet for Biitish manufactures was being shut up, and each country was looking for an outlet for her goods that she would not be able to find. The colonies should stick to the mother country, and »vhat they cannot get from her proIwq themselves, The matter was in

our hands ; we had , tho resources, and should Work oub our destiny 1 for ourselves. With cheap land, vast minerals resources, and plenty of labour, the' colony should becolne a great nation. There could bo no monopoly from the protection which they sought. It was a mistake to suppo.se that procection led to monopolies on the- part of manufacturers. The competition between capital and capital was too keen, and no large profits were got here. Of course, he did nob know about land rinsrs, but there were none for industries. For his part, he did not believe it was necessary to reduce Avages. A good artisan receiving L 3 was getting no more than his clue, while capital was getting from six to ten per cent. Mr Gee explained that in his establishment they had a plant that cost several thousand pounds, and they had room for fifty or fcixty hands it there was only sufficient work. They did not come there to grumble, but they wore nod satisfied with Sir George's views on protection. Many looked on him as the corner stone of better times. Mr Fraser said the question had been asked him how it was that we send wheat to England, and that bread is sold there at fourponce halfpenny, while hero tho cost is from 7d to Bd. His reply was that the bakers in England Avere slave?., and worked all hours for little or no wages. Here, bakers were paid good wages. The speaker proceeded to enlarge upon the benefits that would accrue iromthc protection of soap, candles, fui niture, and many other manufactures exhibited at the Industrial Association 7*001113. Sir George Grey said he perfectly understock all that had been said. The arguments were tho same as ho had heard befoie. Sir George proceeded to epitomise the arguments adduced to show that he understood them rightly. Mr Fraser added that at his foundry they had a plant that cost about L 30,00(), anrl yet things weic t-o nad fchab if it weie nob for his appienbicea, who A\ere practically the only hands they could employ now, he would close the works for a year. When times were good they had employed 200 hand", and paid about 1.400 a week in wages. Like Mr Gee, they sveieal.so compelled to pay property tax on a valuable plain that was lying idle. Sir George said this was a question of the taiift' and what duty wa,i necessary, fie thought some of them should picpare a taritt embodying the amended duties that they were anxious to obtain. Mr Fraser said they had done so, but their Secretary, in who^e po-sca<ion it was, had been prevented from attending the meeting. Sir Geoige s.ad it he had a tariff he could consult the people in the South when he went down, Mr Fraser said they had had an interchange of ideas A\ith the people of Wellington, "whose views on the bubject were the tame as their own. Mr Bell urged the importance of opening up new induebiies <md encouraging those in existence. Settlement of land must go hand in hand with the opening of new industries. Free-tiade might be a success in England, but could nob be bo here without exactly the same conditions. Sir George Gicy did not understand the extent of the dibtiess that burdened the colony, but if he went more amongst the people he would understand it better. Mr Bell pointed out that the making up of clothing alone, should employ 300 women and childien, if the work wad done in the colony. Sir' George said lie had 'seen by recent pa pei s that the Jewish Board of Guardians had stated that the arrival of Germans in London was bub a small danger compared to the influx of numbers of Polish Jews, who had been cruelly treated in their own country, and had been compelled bo fly bo London for pi otection. He had been bold by a Jewish gentleman that these people weie extremely destitute, and on arrival in London they necessarily worked for low wages, which were by degrees reduced so low as to become incredible. Their condition was wretched in the extreme, and they came over in such numbers that the danger to the poor in London was really great. The&e poor Jews were employed in the making-up of clothing ; and perhaps this was the source of clothing a\ liich was imported to the colonies so cheaply. Steps were now being taken in London to stop the influx of these people, and they were not allowed to land in America. Mr Bell remarked that population was our great need, with manufactures and indufebries bo maintain the people. Sir George did not think that the people would starve if they were placed on "the land. Mr Fraser expressed sympathy with tlie Seamen's Union in their dispute with fhe owners of the Richmond. Sir George gave it as his opinion that the payment of interest upon our vast debt of borrowed money had brought the colony bo its piesent trouble, and one of the remedies lay in the increase of population. Workmen were ab present leaving our shores in consequence of the stoppage of industries, |and there were some who said, let> them go. But other people, like the members of the Industrial Association, were building up a great nation, and could not disperse the people as soon as they grew up. Therefore, they must establish manufactories and industries to keep the people in the colony, and in order to keep out the foreign producer they must have a population complete in every respect to supply their wanbs. He did not in his own mind believe that either a state of free trade or protection would alone prevent great misery in a population. He believed it would be requisite to have recourse to other measures. In his further remarks, Sir George i pointed out that one attempt at protection to farmers was made years ago, by putting a duty on sugar so as to induce the grow.ing of beet, when it was found this step J out the preserve industry. For $his reason they required to advance with $reat caution, and he wished, before xsaking any decided step, to consider well \\vJkat the end might be. He believed that in Jess than a century this colony would be the jiope of this part of the world, and that froE3 its isolabed position it would be free from black labour. Mr tßell thought the free traders did not carry their arguments to a logical conclusion, ox .they could not agree to the impositioß iof the poll-tax on the Chinese.