PARLIAMENTARY.

Te Aroha News, Volume IV, Issue 162, 24 July 1886, Page 5

PARLIAMENTARY.

The Railway Debentures Purchase. Sir George Grey's Questions. [BY TELEGRAPH — " STAR " CORRESPONDENT.] Wellington, July 19. The most remarkable display of party tactics that has happened this session took place this afternoon, and fanned the smouldering embers of discontent connected with the suppression of the debate on the report of the District Railways Purchase Committee into flame. There were nine questions on the Order paper, the last two being given notice of by Sir Geo. Grey. It was perfectly understood before the House met that, the Government would prevent discussion coming on, by putting up one of their supporters to move the adjournment of the House on a previous question. This being done, it would not be competent to move the adjournment of the House again until some business has been transacted, so that there could be no discusfcion on Sir George Grey's question. Sir George was, however, too much for them, and when the questions were called Messrs Buckland, Fergus, Sutter, Pere, Newman, and HamI'm successively rose and asked permission to postpone their questions till Tuesday. Sir Geo. Grey then put his first question as follows : " Upon whose recommendation was F. S. Slee appointed a Justice of the Peace, and what was the date of his appointment i" The Minister of Justice explained that it would be neither expedient nor right for the Government to give to|the House the information or the representations they had received on the subject. He did now know of any precedent for such a question, and therefore it was his duty not to give any further information on the subject. Representations were made from 1882, and continued till 1884, and the gentleman was appointed in 1885 Mr Ttjrnbull was on his legs in a moment, and moved the adjournment of the House, stating, at the same time, that the explanation was not satisfactory. He then pre ventedadiacussionon thefollo wing question, but Sir Geo. brey, who rose to speak to the amendment, very skilfully and adroitly brought up the whole matter on the question before the House, and the "fat was in the fire." Sir Geo. Grey regretted the method that had been adopted to prevent discussion taking place on Mb subsequent motion. He proceeded to gay that the bill effecting purchase of the Waimate district railway became law on September 22, but the 18th September was the date of the. letter to Major Steward from Mr F. Slee. Sir George proceeded to read the letter, which has already been published, and in doing so gave the name of Sir Julius Yogel instead of the blank "which occurs in the letter. Sir George said that what he particularly wished to remark upon was that when the letter was received from Mr Slee < some steps should have been made to return the letter to him, and hie should have been reprimanded in some way. He asked if the existence of this letter was made known to Sir Julius Yogel, and if he waa aware that his name was left blank. The Premier : No. Sir George : Then I am sorry to hear it. The hon. gentleman proceeded to say that he did not believe it was contemplated that the power to purchase > district railways should ever be exercised in the way it was. The negotiations for the sale of the debentures should have Jjeen .conducted in a proper way and, through' proper channels, and he contended there had been

i legality in the method of purchase, the negotiations having been commenced before the law was made. He also believed Mr should have been punished for having made such a proposal to the Department. 'He was delighted to have been" the means of bringing up this question, and he was glad to have heard that the Colonial Treasurer waa not aware of the offer made. .

Sir Julius Yogel said he was obliged to Sir George Grey for having brought forward the matter, for it gave him an opportunity ot explaining why he did not speak when the matter was before the House on Wednesday, He thought the resolution moved by his colleague would have been traversed by the question of adopting the report, and wasao surprised at the suddenness with which the whole thing was over that he was too late to speak unless by asking the special indulgence of the House.

Mr Thomson (Chairman of the Select Committee) said he was unwilling to inter rupt the Treasurer, but would he be given the'opportunity of replying to any remarks that the hon. gentlemen might make.

The Speaker : .Oh, yes. Any speech delivered in the debate will be open to remark by other members. The only request he had to make waa thab hon. members would refrain from discussing the speech made by the Premier on Wednesday, and the resolution passed, they forming part of the previous debate. Probably the House would not like to check the Treasurer from making a full personal explanation on the subject. (Hear.)

Mr Thomson thought it might have been ruled that members must confine the debate to the question put regarding JMr F. Slee, and as the Treasurer was making personal observations, he and others might not be permitted *o make lemarks on the other speeches delivered.

The Speakek replied that speeches made during the debate would bo open to criticism by other members of the House.

The Tkeasurer proceeded to Bay that anticipating that his colleague's resolutiona would have been traversed by the question of adopting the report, he expected an opportunity to reply, and vras surprised when the debate came to so premature an end. He did not consider, and he still did not consider, that he was personally attacked by the Committee's report. It seemed to him that the introduction of the paragraph in which his name was mentioned was a most unwarranted and unwarrantable action. Nobody would be safe if it were open for a committee to invite opinions were the opinions expressed to be the subject of a special report. He would refer to Mr Slee'a letter later on, but now, if he had understood the member for Auckland East aright, he agreed with him that such a letter was an insulb to the gentleman to whom it was written, and should have been the object of great indignation on his part. The report of the Select Committee, when first brought under his notice, was a very great surprise. When he was before the Committee, no documents were shown to him. He had some papers which he asked the Treasury to make up, but he had not time to examine them. He gave his evidence to the best of his ability, and he presumed the Committee were satisfied^, as they placed no papers before him, nor asked him to make any further explanation. He contended that the report of the Committee was inconsistent with the order of reference and evidence brought before them. The member for Waikouaiti having found that be had made a mistake, expressed unqualified regret for having done so, and would not allow his evidence to be shaken on the point ; but what a remarkable contrast was afforded by the conduct of the Committee as a whole ! They were appointed to inquire whether any member had been guilty of that horrible offence against Parliamentary honour, having taken money for procuring the passage of a bill through the House. Why, the evidence entirely failed, to show that the hon. member for Waimate had received payment for hid exertions in carrying the bill in question through the House. Those who know that hon. gentleman were aware that when he endeavoured to carry any measure which he conceived to be for the interest of his constituents, he showed great energy and anxiety. Undoubtedly, tha Waimate constituents were largely interested in the passing of the Dietrict Railways Purchasing Bill, and his . anxiety " was amply explained by the attitude he ' 'assumed when endeavouring in former years to pass measures which were of a local interest, or which he took charge of. The. evidence before the Committee showed that after the session, Mr Steward tried to sell certain debentures to the JSew Zealand Insurance Aesociation, and said he considered he had an influence in two directions. It was not clear what those directions were, but he (the speaker) would show that the hon. member could have had no idea that the Government desired to purchaee the debentures at that time. About October 13, the honorable gentleman first found that he (Sir Julius Yogel) was willing to purchase the debentures for the Government. It seemed to him that the honorable member, having no other business in hand, was not bound, when he found the Government were willing to purchase, to throw up the business. However, that was a question of opinion, and though the rcembere of Committee, so far as they were concerned, would have thrown up the transaction when they discovered that they were dealing with the Government, it did not necessarily follow that they were justified in conveying cenpuve on another who thought otherwise. The hon, member seemed to have gained his commission in the ordinary way, supposing he had a right to make it. The whole of the evidence showed that the Government had made up their minds what price they would pay, and in the end . they obtained the debentures at their own price. If the Committee had not employed Major Steward they would have probably employed someone else. When he first read the report he thought Mr; Peacock 5 , was serioujly implicated, but after reading that gentleman's evidence he found tfca L .

the report wa? utterly inconsistent with it. Since he gave his evidence he came accidentally across a memo, which he wrote shortly after the last session, which would explain his feelings on the subjects It was in his mind to try and prevent the debentures from being hawked at Home by four or five companies, and it waa about the 3rd of October that he wrote the memo, referred to. On 18th of October, 1885, he was not aware that he himself would be in a position to. buy thoje debentures for the Government Early in that week Major Steward came down from I Auckland, and informed him that he was in , $ position to negotiate for the sale of the debentures of Waimate, and expected to be authorised to act for the Duntroon and Rotorua Companies. On October 19, he was informed by Major Steward that the Duntroon. Co. would not sell, and he thereupon agreedio take £50,000 worth of Rotorua debentures. Tho 'transactions showed that he had been firm throughout, and hadconducted the negotiations with discretion and judgment, enabling him to secure the debentures on very excellent terms. He solemnly declared his conviction that it would have been better for him to deal through an agent than by correspondence, and the fact that Major Steward was a member of Parliament and had been a supporter of the Government did not influence him in the slightest. He assured the House that the week afterwards he was invited to purchaee debentures from local bodies, siteß for public buildings, post-offices, etc., and were he to ask the hon. members who interviewed him concerningthesematters if they expected to derive pecuniary benefit therefrom he should be simply insulting them, and Ministers would be quite unapproachable if they adopted any course of the kind. (Hear. ) He desired to maintain the purity of Parliament, and had]never done anything directly or indirectly to deviate from that course, and the best safeguard to the purity of Parliament was something very different from Ministerial dry-nursing — it was in the frequent appeals to the' constituencies which short Parliaments gave us. He denied the right of the Select Committee to criticise or challenge his conduct, and said that their deliberations bore the evidence of malice, hatred, and uncharitableness. He cculd assure the hon. gentlemen that it was only last night that he learned that the blanks in Mr Slee'sletter were filled up in the original letter with his name. He did not thank the Committee for making those blanks, and allowing it to be whispered through the House that his name had been concealed. He considered the letter a disgraceful outrage on liimself, and Major Steward should have showed it to him immediately on its receipt. It placed him in an entirely false position, and the moment he ascertained that the name in the letter was his, he conceived that the 3'hole question bore a very different complexion. When he was told that the blanks referred to him he was perfectly amazed. It was quite evident to hon. members that this letter was a very serious matter to him, and he felt angry at the unwarrantable use of his name, but putting aside his private feelings, he was sure that every one would agree with him that if a member used his personal influence to gratify political spite, it was as great an offence against Parliamentary honour as using political influence for pecuniary gain. No doubt the only construction that could be put upon that letter was that the writer wished to give an hon. member an opportunity to make money by offering, with a Minister of the Crown, to do certain things. That was a heinous offence. As he understood it was the intention of the Premier to confer with the Speaker and the leader of Opposition as to what action should be taken in the matter, he would say nothing further. (Cheers )

Mr Lance proceeded to make an explanation relative to the blanks in the 5 letter. He was in conversation with Sir Julius Yogel in the Cabinet-room last night. The Colonial Treasurer asked whom the blanks^ referred to, and he (the speaker) said they referred to him, and Sir Julius appeared to be utterly astounded,- 1 and if those present had seen the effect upon the hon. gentleman they would have felt for him. Sir Julius Yogel immediately said he would join issue with the member' for Auckland City East in having thY matter out, and raised the question at the time whether he should bring the writer of the letter to the House or proceed against him before a civil tribunal.

Mr J. W. Thomson, Chairman of the Committee, rose with some diffidence. He reviewed the proceedings already taken in this matter. The Premier's reeolution, in his opinion, simply confirmed the report of, the Committee, and consequently he did not see that he had anything to reply to. The resolution simply said, "You have done nothing, but don't do it again. " He upheld the right of the Committee to ask the Colonial Treasurer the question which was put, and showed the inconsistency of the statements; relative to the intention to write to the Companies, and also to appoint an agent to conduct negotiations. The reason the name was left blank in the letter was that they simply followed the course pursued in a Court of Justice, where a piece ■ of paper was placed over the name of ,the gentleman on whom reflections were' cast. The suggestion to appoint this Committee originated with himself, and, was the outcome of conversationwith several Southern members, whom he met while on a visit to Christchuroh ' before the session commenced. When he came to Wellington, , he discussed the matter in th? lobbies with various members. His action throughout had been fair and above board. He should cay that allthe time the investigation was going on Major Steward never eoughtto influence him ' in any way. The Committee waa as W and impartial a one as could be selected from the House, and: the gentlemen comprising it were all men of fair and moderate views. He held that ; it was ho part of hia' duty to move the adoption of the report, as he h id never been requested to do \o, and, it rested entirely on the Government to take action. % He disclaimed anvr ■vindictive ...filing- in the matter, and- *. he ,-,•; W moved ; . the adoption - . of/ 'n« report , it might have appeared that" he was anxious to sheet .matters home. f Efe>

was reluctant to take up the matter, and was requested to do so by several hon. members. (The Premier: "Who asked you? Name. Give name.") He considered that the Committee had done good work. They had shown that the transactions that had taken place were discreditable to all concerned. It was evident that the House thought such transactions had taken place when they said it must not be done again. MrGARRiCK thought it unjustifiable on the part of the Colonial Treasurer to use the expressions he had done relative to the conduct of the Committee, and as a personal friend of the Treasurer be was sorry that' in the heat of the debate he had made such a serious and un-called-for reflection on the Committee of which he himself was a member. He thought it probable that it would have been better that the question had not been reopened. The purchase of the Wainmte debentures was reflected on during the recess as an unsavory thing, and one that did not reflect on the honour of the Houee. He characterised Ay Slee's letter of September 18th as extraordinary, and eaid that though it might have been an error of judgment not to insert the Treasurer's name in place of a blank; the omission on the Committee's part was out of a feel ing of delicacy to Sir Julius Yogel, who, they all felt, had not seen the letter. That did not warrant the Treasurer in using language be had concerning the Committee. To &how that the matter had received public attention, he mentioned that Major Steward Bpoke of the scandalous paragraphs that bad appeared in the penny -a - liner newspapers. Major Steward, he admitted, bad held back nothing, but immediately and voluntarily placed at the disposal of the Committee all the evidence in his power, with the idea of making the inquiry as exhaustive as possible. He quite admitted the force of Major Steward's statement, that the offer of the Commission was a surprise to him, but he did not think it should have been a surprise. The bon. gentleman need every possible exertion in the matter, and did not lose an opportunity of lobbying members. In this connection, he referred to the fact that twentyfour hours after the bill had been pasped, Major Steward addressed theGovernrnent on the subject of the sale of the debentures. "While the Committee's report eaid no technical breach* of the Disqualification Act had been committed, yet it was apparent that the question of commiseion was not absent from bis mind, and he regretted that the gross indecency of hi? position never occurred to him when he rushed into the breach and pocketed the thousand guineas. Mr Garrick proceeded to eulogise Mr Peacock's action in abstaining from taking any action in the whole matter both in Auckland and here, and said it Bhowed he was careful to allow no breath to Bully the mirror oi hia reputation. He held that the transaction had impugned the integrity of members, and was convinced that if the whole matter were ever to take place again, Major Steward would not commit the folly of taking the same course. He disclaimed any personal feeling in the matter, and said if there was one member he would screen it was the hon. member for Waimate, and he strove to exhaust the inquiry in the hope that something might come out to cover the hon gentleman.

Major Steward repeated his former statements relative to the period of the evening when the Waimate line was replaced in the schedule. He ob jectedtothe statement of the last speaker that he had used fair and foul means. He held that tha word foul was unparliamentaiy, and submitted that there had been nothing unfair in bis action to have the line restored. He would never have thought of making such a request to the Colonial Treasurer as was eaid to be contained in Mr Slee's letter, nor did he think it was Mr Slee's desire he should. He addressed the Colonial Treasurer simply in his. capacity as Chairman of the Government Insurance Association. He held that he was honestly and fairly entitled to the verdict passed by the House the other day. When he undertook the sale of the debentures originally he never thought of selling them to the Government, and made his request to have the debentures inscribed to facilitate their sale in London.

Wi Perb thought the evidence disclosed the fact that a certain hon. member expected to get commission out of the affair. and that the transaction would be a source of profit. That gentleman admitted that he had received £1,030. Next Tuesday he would move that the hon. gentleman be requested to refund that money for the benefit of the sufferers by the Rotorua eruption. (Laughter). He thought the profit from the transaction was fioo much for one man, (Laughter) When the question of the purchase of the line came before the House, he consented, at that hon. member's request, to support the purchase, because ha was told that the people in the district had to pay heavy taxes on account of this line.

Mr W. F. Buckland, as a. supporter of the bill, corrected Major Steward relative to the proceedings at the time. Major Steward asked him at the eleven o'clock adjournment not to go away, as he and some of his friends intended, after the House resumed, to get the line restored t j the schedule. That attempt wag successful.

Mr Bakron said if hon. members were to he attacked by such gross charges .'it id innuehdoasColonial Treasurer had attacked members of that Committee, gentlemen would be very reluctant to perform their duties. Looking at all he had heard, and all that had transpired, he, as a member of the Committee, did not feel disposed to modify one word of the report arrived at. Mr J. C. Bttckxand eaid that when the bill was reinstated he met Major Steward in the lobbies, and said he believed ho was the only member in the House who could have effected the object. Major Steward said : "Do you think co? Well, my seat is of some consequence. You might write to Mr Douglas and tell him bo ;" and he thought it only right to do co. The hon. gentleman proceeded to make a personal explanation respecting the letter, and said he condemned as strongly as anyone the action of the honourable member for Waimate in accepting commission on the sale of the debentures. He did not think it right that members should come there with their eyes open for these pickings. Mr Bruce, as a member of the Committee, disclaimed any envy, malice, or par. eonal bias in coming to his decision. He repudiated the - statements made outside the House, that the Committee sat there ©a prosecutors. His desire had been to judge his iellow members with that charity that speak eth no evil, but if his integrity in that House waß ever questioned, he hoped he would be tried by such a Comr xnittee as dealt with tho present; caee. Captain Suttee spoke in the Bame strain. ' : •

■ Mr Fulton said the member tor Waimate knew he had been on the most friendly relations with him, and on one occasion he tad written a letter to/ that" gentleman ex-, pressing pleasure that 'they had; such l a gentleman as himself in the capacity of Government whip. He denied any intention to impute any connection in the matter $O tbe Colonial Treasurer. Members had ©ndoavoured to ascertain from him whose

name was refered to in the blank, but he refused. Who then, he asked, gave the name Major Steward asked them to elim- \ mate names, but he hed reason to say that: the member for Waimate had disclosed it./ The hon. member for Cheviot, at all events,; told him he did not hear it from a member of the Committee. He had told the hou. member for Waimate after the matter was over, but. did not think he was corrupt, butj believed he was indiscreet, if not indecent, in ' taking the part he did in the matter when j he knew the results would bo affected by his influence as a member of Parliament. ■ The adjournment fox dinner then took ; place. On resuming at 7.30, The Premier said that in order to allow j \ the debate to proceed he would move that the Orders of the Day be adjourned. He had intended to give a reply to the other question on the Order Paper if it had been brought up. So far as he could see, no civil or other proceedings were necessary. As to whether the matter was a breach of privilege, there was a doubt. In his opinion it was not. He would, however, look into the question, and give his answer on Monday. r Mr Folton then proceeded with -his speech. He thought the Colonial Treasurer should have warned the hon. member for Waimate that he was engaged in what was a Very questionable transaction, and one respecting which the worst motives would be imputed. Mr O'Connor feared that tho discussion was tending towards a party question. He deprecated the tendency which he saw of placing the worst possible colour on the motives of thonoii. member for Waimate. He was working in the interests of tho constitoionts of his district at large, and his motives were thus fully accounted for. There was not a tittle of evidence to show that he was actuated by any other consideration. It could only bo shown that he tmdertook to effect a sale of tho debentures, and while Urns engaged the Government stepped in and purchased them. It could not be shown that he deprived the Government chest of a penny, or that he accepted any payment lor the services he rondered tho State. He sympathised with tho member for Waimate and the Colonial Treasurer, because it appeared they acted in the best faith in the interests of the colony. They, however, put themselves in a position in which their actions might bo misinterpreted, and it appeared thero were some people "who did not scruule to do that. Mr Downib Stewakt said he experienced a profound feeling of disappointment when ho heard tho evidence because it did not appear to bear out the report ; but on further consideration he saw there was very, little in it, although it gave v bad impression. Ho wns satisfied there was nothing at all in tho report reflecting on the member for Newton who took a perfectly honourable part in connection with the transaction. He believed the hon. member for Waimate was actuated by conscientious motives in endeavouring to get the line through, but he thought the hon. member had a lively expectation of having to dispose of tho debentures. He failed to see anything questionablo in connection with tho hon. member effecting the sale. The evidence to his mind was incomplete, as ho bolievcd that Mr Slec and several members of tho Board of Directors of the Waimato line should have been examined. Taking a broad view of the question he did not think any of the gentlemen concerned in the transaction were guilty of any misconduct in any sense of the term. They had no right to form a Dad interpretation on a doubtful set of events.

Mr Jjuncan suid he had a painful duty 10 perform in consequence of speeches made by members of Committee. He was going to thro w some light on what transpired at tho Committee, to show that the Committee was biassed. One member endeavoured to get him to say in their decision that Major Steward was to get money so as to bring him under the Disqualification Act. He (the Speaker) opposed that, and the clause wa» waived in order that, they might be unanimous.

Mr J. W. Thomson here said ho had no recollection of this circumstance. The member for Cavorsham prepared a resolution, b\it on the advice of the member for Napier it was abandoned in order that their finding should bo unanimous.

Mr Duncan said he thought the right thing had not been done by Major Steward, and he would agree to the decisions of the Committee, although he would not be present. He thought the Colonial Treasurer was to blame for having provoked the discussion and was not judicious in his remarks respecting the Committ o. The remarks of the Member for Si Albans were not warranted by what fell from the Treasurer, but he, perhaps, was smarting under the lash of the Colonial Treasurer.

Mr Bryce defended tho Committee from charges brought against them, and said nothing convinced him that the Committee acted fairly, conscientiously, and reasonably, more than the speech of the Hon. member who had just sat down He wished t o refer to resolution proposed by the Premier, but was ruled out of order. He inquired whether it was intended to impugn or rescind that resolution, and reprobated the action of any hon. member in receiving commission for a transaction in which the Government were either buyer or seller. If the feeling of the House was in that direction the action of the Treasurer was certainly to be reprobated. He (thf speaker) went further than the Committee aud said, supposing they put the Government out of the question aud made out that tho debentures could not have been sold to the Govcrmont, still he said that if a member of this House promoted the passing of a Bill with the lively expectation of pecuniary favours to come, he did what was wrong. He had long known the member for Waimate as an hon< st und honourable gentleman, and as to the Committee, he considered they were unbiassed, and let him say this of the Committee, that if a Committee who j!o\ind it necessary to speak disapprovingly of tho conduct of a member of tho Government were to be attacked in the mannc)' in which the Colonial Treasurer had that afternoon spoken, such conduct would noijjnly tend to impair the usefulness of the committee, but would make members unwilling to act on a committee who were likely to bring up a report unfavourable to any member of the Government. The aspersions on the committee cast by Sir Julius Yogel were unjustifiable and unwarantable, and instead of committing any outrage they had done good service to the country.

Mr Kerk, speaking as a layman, said that the Member for Waimate. having been tried, on Wednesday and thoroughly acquitted, had no right to be put on his trial ngain. Certainly ho had acted foolishly in producing before the Committee a private letter, but he had not acted in a roguish manner, and the mistake ho had made was in saying too much. (Laughter.)

Mr Lkvestam said it was plain to him that, but for allowing the wiser counsels of the member for Waimate, Mr Duncau, to prevail, the Committee would have come down with even stronger resolutions, and thus, by .taking an untenable erronnd, have made themselves ridiculous. Ho criticised the evidence, and contended that it in no way bore out the conclusion arrived at. He was at one with the Treasurer that the Committee had gone altogether beyond the order of reference. The Committee were to be strongly censured for not showing Mr Slee's letter to the Treasurer and inviting from him an explanation on tho matter. With the last speakor he blamed Mr Steward for placing before the Committee that private communication.

~*Mr. Bevan said it had always been his desire to look on the brighter side of things as well as on the better side of human nature. He acquitted the Committee of all bias, though after considering the evidence and order of reference he came to the conclusion that they had exceeded their duty, when tho District Railways Purchasing Bill was under consideration. Other Hon. Gentlemen, besides the member for Waimato took an active interest in passing of ttat measure. He recollected that after the Waimate line was struck out from tho schedulo, the 'hon. member for Waimate remarked to him that his anxiety to get th- life resold was that every other hon. had got his railway carried, arid how could be, under such circumstances, face his constituents in that matter. He thought Major Steward had been actuated by purest motivts in serving his constituency. Major Steward had been honourably acquitted by the House and by the country and it was a pity he and the Treasurer had been made objects of insideous attack,ho(tho Speaker) proceeded to speak in glowing terms of the many Excellent public' services rendered by Sir Julius "Yogel; Was it to be »s---sumed Jhat, a member of Parliament, nuist not conduct transactions without speaking as a businessman. He saw no objection to members of the House- dealing as a customer with the Government so 'long as the transactions •were honest and honourable,- and would bear the light of day. This Parliament would lower its dignity if it did not at once close tho debate.

Major Atkinson said it' was to bo regretted that the Treasurer should. have given the tnrn he had to the debate by speaking in* the unmeasured terms he had concerning. the, Committee's report. Making every allowance; it seemed to him that the language used was entirely unjustifiable. The Committee was as fair rind reasonable a tribunal as could\be, selected from the House. He wanted to know .Von wha? possible Sound the Committee could; be: condemned, c Bftid this w>t because the Committee needed defending, because tney.-V^ouldr :: .waht ■no defence with the country after tho; evidence had been read, but because they had an^unpleaoarit

ftuty to perform, and had performed it fearlessly and to theibestiof their lights. When members of th© House, especially those in a high place, attached a committee, they should not do so without, the strongest possible grounds, and the speech of the member for Waitaki showed that there was no ground for attack made. (Hear). Now, when c (the speaker) first heard insinuations concerning this matter directed against the hon, member for Waimate he could not believe them, and now, having read the evidence with very great carei no matter; what amount of pain and regret it gave him, he felt bound to tell the House the conclusion he: had arrived at. He arose from a most careful consideration of the evidence with an intense feeling of pain and regret, and he came to this conclusion that tho committee had not in any way in a single respect brought in a report which was not fully borne out oy the evidence. Not only were tho committee fully justified in their conclusions, but to his nimd if Major Steward wished to sethimself right he must demand a a more soarching inquiry than had yet taken place. That the inquiry was incomplete was borne out by the report for the for the committee in effect said : This is a very doubtful transaction • There is not sufficient evidenco before us to enable us come to a satisfactory conclusion on the matter, and the Honourable gentleman has a right te insist on further inquiry into the the matter. Now thero could be no doubt that this £1,035 commission had some out of the public chest— that seemed to him an inevitable conclusion, and he ventured to think that it would be the conclusion of the public at large. If the hon. gentleman hoped to clear his character ho would at once pay that amount into the public account (Laught r.) Ho regretted to see that the Premier laughed because it raised in his mind most painful feelings. He repeated that of Mr Steward valued his reputation, and the speaker believed ho did, he would pay over every penny of that, £1035 into the public account. Members should not only personally avoid doing wrong, but they should be exceedingly jealous of the honour of this House, becruse what brought discredit on on o hon. to ember in transactions of this kind must, necessarily bring doscrodit on the House generally. Putting it in the niost favourable light that the Member for Waimate liad received tho amount under a misapprehension, and that he had been perfectly guiltless in the whole matter, still if had derived any profits from the transaction a nmch harsher name would be attached to him by tho Public than yet had been attached to it, and his only hope of regaining the character hitherto borne by him would be by rofunding tbat amount to the public treasury, -[i ho Premier: Why not to thtiCouutiy?]-So long as the money ren.ains in the hon. member's pooker, In »in.j take my word for it thai, he wjII be looked uppn with su&plclbn by the pubic. As to Mr Slee's letter, tbe Bpeaker eaid ho regr<nt?d the CJcmmittea had no*, aoen thoic way to probe it to the bottom. To his mind t»o more prompt occurrence bad taken place than this discussion. He cciftssod that on We3nesday ha had been taken by auryrlse by the sudden adoption of the Preusiei'd re so" ution, and regreueri that the House had not delaytd the consideration of it till the ro-oUvion had b:on printed", in which ca»o possibly a m^re satisfactory conclusion would have been arrived at In conclusion, h? na~! t> say thut the House was booL'd in the iuteresta of public morality to put ita foot down in the strongest manner p.is.-jible s-miia^t t r ansactlon3 of this nature, and he was «lad that, led by the Premier, ihe House had xfilrrnod ihai, fcuch transactions wera unjustifiable. He hoped that the member for Waimate would demand further ing.dry, which the House would readily extend to him. ior btill there was a public scandal attaching to it, and th>:t he wnuld furdiur cay. "My hands thall be clean. I bhall refund the money to >he pub ; io pockets."

Mr Rollkbton would bo glad when the debate caniH i.o an end, though ho was not sorry it had tok^-n * lace. There was an embiguity about the rc-8olut : on carried on Wodueadß.y. which was not. satisfactory, and tho c t untry wotild not h ive been saruflea if thera had not been an expression on the part of the Houso in regard to the transaction, A-< one of theoldest members of tne House he oould not remain rilent without d< ing an injustice to himself. After thedeftnee of the Colonial Treasurer and the member fjr Wctimate. which hu.d taken place that afternoon, he beiieveci »hat the vordiot of the country would be entirely in accord with that of the O mmittce. He protested agains-t the language of the Treasurer that he was not to aot as a cry nurßO for toe hoD. m«mb rs. The Colonial Treasurer had said that he ha>l instructed his solicitor to take such action tbat the public woula be able to form its judKmert during the recess; but no verdict could alter what the Committee had dove. s:e agreed with a good deal of what had been said about the hon. . member for Waimate. It was not in good intentions that the honourable member rad failed. He hai failed in the distinguishing line which divided right from wrong. The Hou&e had a right to expf ct that a p»ra n in the position of the Colonial 'treasurer wou'd have pointed out that line. He felt that the House would do its duty to the country by aps>r «viug of wiat the Ocmitiitt'-e had done, £0 that the euuntry would feel that the House hud done itß duty. Mr Tubnbuia said tint tho only point on wbich he conceived the Committee w^re to bltme was in not tho wing Mr bleo's etter to the Treasurer wnon he wus bt-fore them under examination. He had last year oppo3ed the Uirttviet Rai-WAj s Purchase BUI He regretted whi-n the measure wa* pißSed, and he still sill regretted it, for o her wise members of the Houses wou'd bo saved this debate. From his knowledge of the hon. meo*ber, he believed that htt had r.ften unwillingly Jed tuto a ti-wueuction which reflect don himself to a <:e tain degree t.nd tarnibheri the honour of t is liou^r. Thia closed the deba c? at 10. <5 and the motion for the adjournment of the Hourse on l>eL g pus waj negatived. July 20. Imprest Supply. The Premier stated last evening thab he would have to ask the House for further imprest supply. Shortly afterwards the House went into Committee of Supply, and tbe Imprest Supply Bill for £220,000 way pas.-cd through all stages. Of this amount £600,000 is for the Public Works Fund, and £160,000 for the Consolidated Fund. Tarawera Relict Fund. At the meeting of Parliament yesterday afternoon, it was decided that a Committee I be formod, consisting of Hia Excellency the ! Governor, the Speakere of both Houses, and three members from each branch of the Legislature, to arrange for holding a carnival at Soames Island in aid of the Tarawera Relief Fund. "End of tbe Session. Many members had the impression that the session would last for a further •period of five or six weeks, but the statement made by the Premier last night was of a more reassuring character. He said the Government hoped, with the assistance of members, to get through the business in a fortnight.. Mr v 'v'. F. Buckland wanted the House to t-jku away the additional private members' day, and the Premier replied that next Thurs Jay would be the last private members' day, but if members chose, they could also havo Saturday morning for their business. The Late Mr Fitzgerald's Work. The Premier laid on the table of the House last night a iournal of the proceedings iv the third Parliament of the House, from 1860 to 1863, which had been compiled by the lare Mr M, Fitzgerald, whose death was announced last week. In doing soy Sir Robert Stout made a feeling, reference to the death of Mr Fitzgerald, who had, he said, taken a pleasure in the work entrusted toliim. By hia decease, the colony had lost one of her most promising sons. Bir George; Grey expressed regret' at the news of the death of the gentleman' in question, and suggested that a tombstone to hia metaory should be erected by the Government.-. ■ ■•.-.- .....•-■• ; Mr Frank Slee's lietter. ';•-.-- The Premier infornied the Hou&e lost evening that he had looked up all the available authoiities for the purpose of seeing whether Mr Frank Slee's letter relative.t o the purchase of the Waimate 1 railway debentures could be brought uw aa 'a matter of breach bf privilege.' .He could not^ 'how- ; ever, ""see' that it >vould come- .vf-ithin the interpretation', of Br^acli of^tivilege; "The hon. gentleman also to the 'prc^dings'^hicHf thej 4 ColoiiiaP Treasurer was .taking agaiust various news- I*'1 *' papers, for^bel;"; rl .t;"f i/$ : -; - - -t*~' % s; : • Sir /George i Grey asked if|the Government proposed'.tp'i.inetitute 6"= f urther inq[uiry, as", 'recommended .l?y MjajoryAtkinspn^ai^ the Premier promised to consult hiicdlleaguea.

Sir George Grey proceeded to recommend the formation of a party in the House With ths object of putting an end to these disgraceful transactions. He would be willing to lend his assistance to a party that would seek to establish the purity of Parliament, and that would shake the Government on those benches, and compel them to put an end to these proceedings. First Offenders' Probation. The clause in the First Offe.nders'Probation Bill providing for the appointment of probation officers met with strong opposition last night from Major Atkinson, Messrs tfryce, Rolleston, Fulton, and others, who objected to the existence of the proposed system of surveillance. Mr Tole promised to Bee if an amendment could be made in the other chamber, and quoted Mr Howard Vincent as an authority that the supposed dogging of steps was more imaginary than real. , . , The Native Disturbance. ' The Native Minister made a statement to the House last night relative to the native disturbance on the West Coasti. He said the press reports which had been published were not altogether correct, but they^nevertheless gave a fair account of what had happened. He had received telegrams from Inspector Pardy, from which it appeared that the nine men arrested were the principal disturbers. All the Maori horses had been impounded, and the pound was being guarded. Mr Ballance said he was advised that the criminal law was sufficient to meet. the case. He had positive information that it was on Te Whiti's advice the disturbances had been committed. He was sending 30 men from Wellington to take the place of those who were on guard. Gold Duty. The bill dealing with the proposed reduction of gold duty has passed the second reading, and has been referred to the Goldfields Committee. The question was raised whether the bill could be introduced, in view of the fact that a somewhat similar measure had just been thrown out by the Legislative Council Mr Larnach urged that this was a Gold Duty Reduction Bill, while the other was an Abolition Bill. This measure proposed to make a reduction of 6d per ounce this year and next, while the other provided that the duty should be reduced each year for four years, at the end of which time it was to be wholly abolished The Speaker held that the bill was quite admissible. Local Bodies' Loans. The House of Representatives has refused to accept the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Local Bodies' Loans Bill. The clause providing that a three-fifths majority shall be necessary in case of a poll for a loan has been altered so as to read that a majority shall be sufficient f o long as one-half the votes are recorded. Sir Julius Yogel and Messrs Ballance and McArthur ha7e been appointed a committee to state the reasons why the amendment should not be accepted. Government Insurance Vote. The bench adjoining that usually occupied by Mr Fisher was adorned last night by a large placard, on which were printed the words, "Government Insurance vote carried by two to one." The member for Wellington South was not present, and consequently the witticism lost Borne of its point. The Houee last night got through the Mines Bill in Committee. Second Readings The second readings of the Gold Duty Reduction Bill, Mortgage Debentures Ace Amendment Bill, Beer Duty Bill, Deceased Persons' E&tates Duties Amendment Bill, Administration Extension Bill, and Public Bodies Leasing Bill were agreed to, and the First Offenders'^Probation Bill passed all stages. Several clauses in the Charitable Aids Extension Bill were considered, and progress reported. Maori Population. The total Maori population for the colony for 1886 was 41 432, being a decrease of 2,541 since last census. July 21. Contractors' [Grievances. The grievances under which contractors labour in re?pcct of the conditions of their contracts were ventilated yesterday affernooti. The Minister of Public Works Paid, in reply <o a question by Mr Dargaville, that the Government; were considering the advisability of altering the conditions under wl.icn contractors for Government works had to tender. Already several important alterations bad been made, and the ma.ttor was Piill under consideration. Mr W. F. Buekland moved the adjournment of the House for fcho purpose of complaining that while hn and M> Gore had done all the vro> k in connection with this matter, Mr Dargaville had stepped in on the very day that the report of the Committee was presented, and by placing th.9 question on the Order Paper sought to obtain the kudos. He asserted that hie claim had been jumped, and objected to the principle pursued by the hon. member for Auckland City West of poking his nose into other paopie's business. However, be prophesied than Mr Dargaville would have enough of the contractors of Auckland before this matter was over. Mr Dargaville in his reply asserted that for years, and Ion*? before Mr Buckland was a member of the House, he had endeavoured to have this matter set right, and before aud after he left Auckland recently the Chairman or Secretary of the Contractors' Association had asked him to attend to the matter. He did not care who got the kudos so leng as justice was done. Mr Gore oointen but that the present conditions deterred large contractors of means and enterprise from undertaking Go vernraent works in the colony. He said the effact was to hand over all contracts to men of small means and no responsibility. He gave an instance where a. contractor having finit-hed a portion of a line was compelled to clear away the whole of the landslips that occurred while be was waiting to hand it over He mentioned that such eminent contractors ac McKay, Millar, Bies, Pritoliard, and Davis Bros, had been driven away from the colouy by the stringency of the conditions in the Government contracts. - Mr Fergus said that in none of the other colonies were conditions so arbitrary, unfair, and unjust as in New Zealand. Messrs Peacock, Thompson', and other members also commented in strong terms on what they considered the unjust aud arbitrary terms of the Govornmont- conditions, and the. question was allowed to drop,- the -Premier saying that in disputes contractors had generally got tho best of it. : • ; Maori History. Ministers, in answer to questions yesterday afternoon, stated thati the Maori historywa? far from being v completed, and the amount of money expended up to the present time was £i,-77«>; Mr White expected to complete tho work about the end of 1890, and tho first volume would be issued shortly;; Mr White had been: engaged. to translate the.manupcript, ai:s£l: periday, rand 'was' to; receive £500, when ithewprkwaßpompleted. ■: .■■.-. : North 4slan I d-RaUwky.^-\^:'--i~;it>-Tho Government stated ves^rday: that, they could : nb,t!gi.ye^a\^de&.mte:answer'aß'ito; when th q<w h ole ;,°of "W aimar mo Blqck,^ ■ad - joining ISTorth lalin^

would be acquired. Negotiations for the purchase were going on satisfactorily, and at the present moment about two-thirds of the block had been acquired. There were over 1,000 owners in the block, living in allparts of the colony. - Plural Voting. When the Representation Act is in Committee, Sir George Grey will propose a new clause providing that from and 'aft r the passing of the Act no elector shall be entitled to vote at more than two electorates. Hospital and Charitable Aid. This .measure was further advanced through Committee of the House.