NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE. Wellington, July 1.

Te Aroha News, Volume III, Issue 109, 4 July 1885, Page 6

NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE. Wellington, July 1.

There was a very full House to-night, in anticipation of hearing some good speechifying on Bir George Grey's wantof-confi-dence motion, and members had to refuse many of the applications for which they wero beseiged for tickets for the spectators' gallery. Immediately on the House meeting and resuming, Mr Daroaville waived his right to speak in Committee of Supply, and Sir Gko. Grey, who was received very coldly, began his address by explaining to the House his position that night. He rose, he said, to a certain extent unfriended, for he had not consulted a single member upon the motion which he had brought forward that day. He had refrained from taking advice or from involving any friends in the responsibility he undertook. For this reason, he felt very strongly and sincerely upon the subject on which he was about to speak. (Hear.) The Financial Statement recently laid before the House had oxcited great discontent within the walls of Parliament, and if possible still greater discontent outside, and in that discontent he fully admitted his entire participation ; therefore he must speak in hostile terms in regard to that Statement. He then proceeded, in an eloquent speech, to discuss certain of the Ministerial proposals, and said that the present additional revenue would not have been required had the Government attended to reduction in the expenditure and future economy. He censured Government for their appointments to the Legislative Council, and said that in the Ministerial proposals there was not a single Liberal measure of any kind brought forward, nor was there anything worthy of the reformer. He then proceeded to state that before the new Parliament was assembled, a common understanding had been come to between Hon. Mr Stout and Sir Julius Vogel that one should be Premier and the other Colonel Treasurer. He had formed his opinion then, and subsequent events had confirmed that opinion that the Government so formed was the New Zealand Agriculturul Company. (Laughter.) Six days after this Government came into office, they were instrumental in passing a bill which donated to this Company nearly £4,090 a year. He inferentially criticised the Colonial Treasurer's management, and stated that however undesirable it was to have State affairs conducted by companies, it was still more undesirable to have them conducted by men who had unfortunately managed —he would not say badly managed — other concerns. Ho appealed to Ministers, if they were satisfied that a land tax and income tax were preferable to the Property Tax, to boldly come before the House with the former proposals, and stake their position on them. They had been told that land claims and telephone claims were before the Government, and for aught they knew the Ministers themselves were urging those claims for reasons he had stated. The present occupants of the Government benches were not proper persons to remain there. He twitted Major Atkinson with want of sincerity in criticising the Government proposals, and, referring to Mr Waken" eld's speech, said that that ungodly man criticised the proposals, and he (Grey) listened with pleasure when he found that one heart in the assembly throbbed in unison with his own. He concluded by an eloquent appeal to members not to continue in office a Ministry whom they distrusted but tolerated because they could not see who their successors were to be, but to turn them out and put in their places a coalition Government worthy of the name, formed from the younger members of the House. Hon. Mr Stout replied, and certainly had the best of the argument with Sir George. He said he would not have spoken to the amendment but for the position in the House occupied by tho member for Auckland City East. As to the criticism of the Financial Statement, it was worsethan weak. It did not pretend to deal with the finances of the country in any respect, and his whole speech consisted of a series of vague generalities without any reference to the subject before the House. The only other reason for which he rose was to reply to certain statements which reflected on him personally, made by Sir George, when he spoke to his constituents in Auckland, and for which no opportunity for reply had been afforded. When he (the speaker) attacked another, he did so face to face, but this treatment not having been extended to him, he craved the leave of^the House while referring to matters which had nothing to do with the discussion on which they were now engaged. He spoke of his past loyalty to Grey, and mentioned that in the beginning of Parliament he had consulted Sir George Grey as leader of the party, but he would rule, and not be ruled. He would not give advice, but seemed to think if he was not in the Government, nothing could go right. The speaker denied that he had any shares in the New Zealand Agricultural Company or Waimea Plains Railway Co. When the Agricultural Company was formed Sir George Grey was asked to be provisional director, and refused merely because he could not spare time to attend to its affairs ; but he had not objected to the AgentGeneral being one of its directors. Referring to the remark about the Legislative Council, he said that Sir George Grey himself had called nine persons to the Legisla tive Council. - At present the proportion of , members to the population was smaller than

in 1879. : Unless the appointments to the^ Council had been made there would have been only 33 members, and some provincial districts would have been entirely unrepresented. ' Something had been said about the J.f\, on gentlemen who made their mark. He had also a short memory on the question, flis Government would require to appoint three timesasmany as they liad appointed to make their list as long as that of the Continuous Ministry, who nad appointed 380. He insinuated that the Continuous ministry's appointmentsiiad beenjmadeforthe purpose o! obtaining political suppon;, while the appointments made by his Government had been in response to requests from all parts of the colony. Referring to the Local Bodies' Powers and Finance Bill and the j Charitable Aid Bill, these measures were almost word for word the same as the bills approved of by Sir George Grey before he I went out of office in 1879, He quoted from the Governor's Speech in that year in support of this contention. Rnf erring to the tariff, he said that in 1879 Mr Wakefield's idea of free trade was that new industries should be guaranteed 5 per cent. Had not members forgotten 1879, when they had voted for an increase of Customs duties by 50 per cent ? He claimed that the present tariff was superior to that of 1879, which at one fell swoop taxed the poor classes. The tariff was the first honest attempt that had been made for years to meet engagements without adding to the burden of debt. They had adhered to the policy laid down in his drill-shed speech, that money should only be borrowed for works that would pay interest, and not for roads and bridges. He took credit to the Government for charging the defence expenditure to the ordinary revenue, and not as lean, The speaker next alluded at length to the need there was for general taxation, and contended that his pledge made in the Dunedin Drill-shed to reduce departmental expenditure had been more than fulfilled. As to the Government proposals to repeal the Iloads and Bridges Construction Act, he said that clamour for General Government aid from outside districts for construction of roads and bridges was increasing their subsidy. The claim rested on taxation. That was, if people did not raise taxes they would get no Government aid. He did not hesitate to say that in the past, roads and bridges had been given simply on political principle to all districts whose representative voted with the Government. He merely said this was a coincidence. Another point about the Local Finance Bill was allowing local bodies to borrow, and if the House were averse to that, Jet them throw out that principle in this bill, He urged that the" Government had no right to add to the permanent debt, but they had adopted the only honest way, viz., imposing additional taxation. He scored another point against Sir Geo. Grey when he said that in 1879, when the Beer Duty Tax was thrown out both, Mr Ballance and himself considered the matter of so vital importance that they suggested the desirability of immediately resigning ; but Sir George Grey, their Premier, showed no spirit of self-sacrifice in declining to give up office. As to the assertion made that he had plotted for the Premiership, Mr Stout said that not only was this not the case, but he was willing if a stable Government could be formed to stand aside altogether. Had Government kept back their Native Lands Bill, they would not have had newspapers interested in land rings plotting their disaster. As when he first joined the Cabinet he did not wish to hold office on sufferance, highly as he valued his position, he would not seek to retain it by resorting to political tactics. The Government had come down boldly with their policy, and asked the House's acceptance of it. After the supper adjournment, Mr Bryce continued the debate by saying it was utterly impossible to discuss the Ministerial policy on the material supplied by the Governor's address. He expressed his intention of not supporting Sir George Grey's amendment, though he would not accept the policy measures of the Government, He said that in making an unnecessary number of officers in the constabulary, tho Minister for Defence was impairing the efficiency of the force. Fea&tings now going on amongst the Maoris meant the speedy extinction of the race, and the indulgence in debauchery now going on was cutting; at every root of population. Mr Ballance followed, and eaid that after his criticism of the Government measures it was the bounden duty of the member for Waitotara to vote with the member for Auckland City East, or to himself take a vote of no confidence. He defended the defence expenditure of the colony, and replied to Major Atkinson's criticism of his control of Native and Lands Departments. He read the interpreter's notes of the interview with Te Whiti, and went on to say that the necessity of borrowing by the present Government had been forced on them by the Continuous Government to meet existing liabilities. He deprecated the resumption of immigration, and said nothing could be more disastrous and demoralising than to introduce more immigrants. He avowed himself a Protectionist, and so, he claimed, was, Major Atkinson. The doctrine was perfectly correct, that in one way or another we must encourage local industries. It was necessary to foster and establish in every way the growth of colonial industries. At 12.40 a.m, Mr Mackenzie (Mount Ida) moved the adjournment of tho debate till 2g30 p.m., which was agreed to. In answer to Mr Connolly, who asked what arrangement the Government intended to make with reference to private members' business, Mr Stout intimated that they would not take any business till the motion was disposed of.