DEBATE ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

Te Aroha News, Volume III, Issue 109, 4 July 1885, Page 6

DEBATE ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

On resuming at 7 30, all the galleries were well filled in anticipation of the opening of the debate on the Financial Statement. House at once resolved into Committee of Supply. Major Atkinson said that in a remarkable speech made by the Colonial Treasurer at Christchurch, he thought it necessary and advisable to give each of his colleagues a character for capacity, and of course he was the best judge whether they were in need of such a character. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman told his constituents that for the future he desired that the Government should be judged on their merits. He (the speaker) should have to begin by quoting both the Premier and the Treasurer, in order that members might have clearly before them what those hon. gentlemen undertook to do, so that they might see whether they had carried out their promise, and judge of the real worth of the proposals they had submitted for this year. The Premier, speaking at Dunedin Drill-shed in January last, promised that in the Native Lands and Defence Departments the Government this year would be able to show a saving of from £60,000 to £80,000, and that in all savings of £100,000 or £150,000 would be effected, unless some unforeseen circumstance occurred. The Treasurer also promised to reinstate the finance, to reduce the expenditure, to pay the Sinking Fund out of the loan, and this, to cap all, to crown the edifice with a complete system of local government. /That was a very nice programme, and it took with the House and the country. A majority of members had no doutt that the promises were going to be fulfilled, that prosperity was going to be restored, and that once more there would be a return of the fine days of 1575 and 1876 Now to look at what had happened. The statement made to the House and country that last year there was a deficit of £150,999, and this year a surplus of £20,Q00,^was misleading, for no mention was made, but in order to get this surplus it had been necessary to borrow £25,000. Then, if the Land Fund were properly placed beforo members, it would be found that upon the transactions of the year they were short something like £30,000. That was the real position of the matter, and he wished to impress it on the House. Then, had the depression improved? We were told on highest authority that there "were satisfactory signs that the depression had begun to pass away. The member for Ashley, in proposing the Address-in Reply, said he believed the depression was passing away, but he Atkinson) would like to have the hon. member in the witness box, and ask him about his own neighbourhood. (Hear. ) The country was in a much more calamitous position than it was this time last year. There were no signs of the depression passing away, and it was only mocking the country to tell them that it was (Hear, hear.) He would venture to say that all right-thinking men, after reading the Statement, would say that the depression was deepening, and was worse than it was a year ago. Then, as to the Premier's promises. It would be found from the twelve clauses mentioned in the estimates that instead of a saving of from £80,000 to £100,000 as promised, there had been an increase of £60,000. The Native Minister had been particularly pointed out as the man who was to effect this saving. Taking first the Armed Constabulary, there was an apparent paving of £13,000 in the department Officers had been increased, and the men decreased, the result being very great discontent among the lower grades of the force, and under the item " Police " there was an increase of £4,000, and for artillery,

engineers, and torpedo corps, practically a branch of the AC. under another name, £25,000 was asked for. Then for Volunteers, an increase of £11,000 was provided for in the .Estimates. Thus, while on the one hand there was a total decrease oi £13,000, on the other hand there were increases which, deducting savings, left n total increase in the department of £26,000The additional vote for defence purposes might be the "unforeseen circumstance" which Ministers would urge, but he could not help thinking that for these purposes there had oeen a great deal more expenditure than was necessary. In the Survey Department there was an apparent saving of £40,000 ; but, looking into the matter, it would be seen that C 10,000 was transferred to the Department, of the Minister for Mines. Then, it would be tound, there was charged to other de partments £16,500, a sum which, by the way, he failed to see in the Estimates rhis transterrence was no reduction. The work was done, and merely charged to another department. Thus there was only a saving of £17,000, while the total increase in another way was £26,000, so that in the two departments there was a loss of £9,000. As to education, he wanted to know where was the better article at a much less cost that the Treasurer spoke of at Ashburton ? It appeared he had some scheme, but the Premier would not let him bring it in, because they disagreed on some principle, and the Premier had completed a scheme of retrenchment in other departments; but the Treasurer would not let him briug it in. That was the result of the present coalition. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman pioceeded to speak of the Inscriptions of Stock Act as a dishonourable Act, and inquired what cause there was for the loan to be inscribed, and he next criticised the financial proposals of the Government. The increased taxation proposed meant at least a quarter of a million. As to the Property Tax, they had been told by the Treasurer it was obnoxious, it was the one thing standing in the way of the progress of the colony, and yet the Treasurer thought to double it without giving any reasons. The proposal was almost smuggled into the Statement. (Laughter. ) Explanation was required as to the cause of doubling this obnoxious tax, and even when the explanations were got, he did not believe that the House would grant the proposal. (Opposition cheers.) As to the local government proposals, the Treasurer had devised a plan of borrowing money in order to pay subsidies to local bodice, that the latter might borrow further, Ingenious as that proposal was, he (the speaker) did not believe that the House would countenance or the country submit to it. As to the Roads and Bridges Construction Act, ho was going to make a fight against its repeal, and when the proper time arrived he would show what it? virtues were. The local government proposals, he ventured to think, would not be acceptable to the Hou?e or the country. He was not going into the question of local government, because he believed we had plenty of local government. (Hear,) The propoeale for raising taxation might be divided under four headt — increase of Customs, Re imposing the Property Tax, increasing the Stamp Duties and Charitable Aid to l«cal institutions. The treasurer kad told them that he was only going to change the increase of taxation by shifting a little of the Customs with a view to restoring their elasticity. He had been a Treasurer himself, and quite understood what ''restoring elasticity" means. It meant a very considerable increase of taxation. The Treasurer stakes his head. His (the speaker's) memory was moderately good, and he recollected exactly the same performance taking place in 1574. (Laughter.) Referring to the duties, he said he was not a Free Ti ader, and not a Protectionist. (Laughter.) He did not think the House *ould pass the hon. gentleman's adTances on the tariff. He had failed to show the necessity for it. He had been glad to hear that the proposals were not cast iron, and he hoped that lie would keep away and reconsider them. He twitted Sir Julius Vogel with being <"he man who had promoted colonial reciprocity, and yet taxed largely the only articlo we got from the only freo trade colony in Aus tralia : he referred to New South Wales and the coal tax proposals. The tariff would bear with undue weight on the working classes. If they were to have fresh taxation it should have been through the Property Tax, and not through the Customs. The Property Tax might fairly have been raised beyond the present figure. He hoped Sir Julius Vogel wouJd tell them how those duties would bear on the various classes of society, With reference to Sir Julius Vogel's statement regarding the £3,000,000 loan, he showed that it had lasted out its time. (Sir Julius Vogel : It was to last till 188 G.) The hon. gentleman was mistaken. Be wanted to show that we can limit our expenditure to £1,000,000 on public works, and he was going to ask the House not to grant the Government mere than £1,000,000 this year. Supposing the additional million asked lor was granted, in two years we will have spent four millions of money, in addition to the enormous amount the local bodies will spend. If the House was foolish enough to pass the local government proposals, the local bodies could rais-e about £3,000 000 on that, and so the eclony would be starting on an enormous spending trip He hoped the House would prevent the colony from being deluged with borrowed money, which it could not see its way to pay the interest on. It could lead to nothing but extravagant expenditure, and he did not think the Hou?e would consent to it, and he trusted the Government would withdraw the proposal to borrow the additional million. He asserted that the Government had failed in its entire policy. Persons had been thrust by the dozen into the Upper House, costing the colony £2,500 a year as long as they chose to hold their seats, and was it likely the colony would get £200 a year out of them ? (Hear, hear.) Then let them look at the number of Justices of the Peace gazetted. There was a belief that the appointments had been made for party purposes, and he claimed they had failed altogether to provide good government. Then they had failed to re instate the finance. The only re instating that they had was first an increase of taxation and ex ppnditure. The country could stand neither. Then there was the local government proposals. The crown they had placed on the edifice they had erected on borrowed money to enable the local bodies to borrow more. It was not his place to propose anything, but he hoped the House would refuse to alter the tariff, refuse the million loan, and refuse the increase in Property Tax until the estimates were reduced at least not less than £80,000 or £100,000 If they refused the loan and these local government proposals, they would put the Government in a fair way to fulfil the promises made last year. (Cheers. ) Sir Julius Vogel replied. He said that Major Atkinson had made objections, but as regarded broad points the task of anpwering him would be an easy one. Referring to Major Atkinson's remarks about Sir Julius Vogel's meeting at Christchurch, he said no doubt .the hon. gentleman was

envious of the character of his (Sir Julius Vogel'&) colleagues. After dealing wibh ■ other statements, he claimed that i die Government had performed all i they promised, and their expectation i had been entirely realised; and he pointed out that while the Government k had a surplus of £20,000, the Atkinson Ministry had a deficit of £150,000. The i hon. gentleman and his friends had in- ' dulged in gloomy vaticinations as to the re ) suit of dispensing with the Sinking Fund, : but he claimed that it had not affected the ; credit ot the colony, and had been a financial success, and he accused Major Atkinson i of being annoyed at his (Sir Julius Vogel's) ; estimate proving correct. Ho claimed that . the depression now existing was different to . the depletion that existed lust year. This I year it was caused by the low price of wool and wheat, aud partly by the war scare, while last year it was caused, not by want of money, but tho entire want of confidence, by constant gloomy pictures drawn by the Government, the no hope held out of improvement period. Last year was an anxious one, and ho had done as much as he could to restore confidence. The savings banks returns showed that when his predecessors were in power the withdrawals had a tendency to exceed deposits. When he and his friends came into power, the deposits began to exceed the withdrawals, the deposits in excess for two months of this quarter being £24,000. (Cheers.) He claimed that the colony was in a better condition than 19 out of 20 other countries or colonies that they knew of. Major Atkinson had stated that the estimates were £50,000 more than last year. This was accounted for alone by the defence expenditure, and by the Property Tax valuation. Major Atkinson had confessed that he cannot see the value of the conversion, but he showed that at the end of seven years they would save £ per cent, on the annual charges. Referring to the necessity of increasing the taxation instead of borrowing, Major Atkinson had said that his ingenuity was surprising ; but after listening to the speech it seemed to him that Major Atkinson was attempting to fasten on them the charge of borrowing which rightly belonged to hia hon, friend. His ingenuity was surprising. Regarding the tariff, there were sotre items that the hon. gentleman would not be pleased with, but he claimed that the increases were not oppressive. He twitted Major Atkinson with the carelessness of his tariff in 1882. One of the items admitted free was tailors' trimmings, and under that heading nearly every article of wearing apparel was introduced. As to the tax on coal, he conceived that at the present time local coal was placed at a great disadvantage compared with that imported, but whether the House had come to the conclusion that the time time had arrived when the latter article should be taxed, he could not say. Certain it was, that the time must come, sooner or later, when the House would require to consider the necessity of placing local producers on the same footingas the importers of foreign coal. It was estimated that the increased taxation from property and stamps would yield £200,000. So far as they could estimate it, the Customs would increase the revenue by £70,00i>, and the other items about £18,000. Kegarding the recent appointments to the Upper House, as reform in its constitution was necessary, the Government did not think it right that consideration should be given to the subject without having a full House. There were so many vacancies lasc session that these weie filled. It was impossible to get sufficient members to give a fair territorial representation. So far as their having been party appointments, some of those called had been voting and acting in this Chamber consistently against the Governtrent. He did not think it necessary to detain the House any longer. The Government had brought down all their proposals, and he thought he had showed that so far as taxation was concerned, it was only raised with a view to stop further borrowing year by year. In conclusion, he wished to say that there was not a single question that the Government had not considered and dealt with so far as they were able to. Burning questions had been allowed to go on year after year, such as hospitals and charitable aid, dealing with the local bodies and others, but these had been boldly considered by the Government", and they had brought down measures dealing with them. Of course, the Government were not infallible, but he said they had industriously applied their best endeavours to those difficult questions which had been allowed to fester year by year. They had made no attempt at disguise, and, instead of introducing tho measures bit by bit, had thrown on the floor of the House the whole of their policy bills. Their financial policy went in the direction that so many members effectually believed in, viz., checking the indiscriminate habit of borrowing, and bo hoped that the House would not see reason to condemn their measures as the member for Egmont had done. (Applause.) The usual ten o'clock adjournment here intervened. On resuming, Mr Wakefiblu said that the Treasurer had charged the member for Egmont, and the House generally, with having shown bad taste towards them in allowing the Governor's speech to go unchallenged, and then proposing to ciiticiee the whole policy of the Government on this occasion. It was quite parliamentary, he submitted, to discuss the speech on the present occasion. He denied that in pass ing the Address-in-Reply without debate the House had given the Government a clean bill of health. All they had done was to grant provisional pratique, and now the process of fumigation was being carried on. He hoped that they would emerge from it clean (Laughter,) The Treasurer's speech was disapponting, and the only occasion where he rose to his natural eloquence lost its force from the fact that the speaker was not sincere in referring to the Government's action in placing the colony in a state of defence. It was a grievous admission to have to make that the colony was now in a more depressed state than it was a year ago, and the Treasurer, in stating that the depression was passing away, showed positive ignorance of the state of the country which he undertook to rule, and over whose finances he presided. Oats were selling at 6d per bushel in the interior of Otago. (ThiBremark wasreceived with questionable faith by Ministerial supporters, and Mr Wakefield, on being pressed to name the district he referred t», was unable to do so, Mr Fergus, however, came to his rescue, and answered, "Marnototo and Wanaka," while Mr M. J. S. MoKenzie repeated, "Yes; Mamototo." This led Mr Seddon to say : "At that price I would not object to buying them wholesale ") Mr Wakefikldproceeded withhisaddress and charged t.he Government with having lastyear inspired the country with false confidence, and the result was that the depression was now greater than ever. As to the light, airy manner in which the Treasurer had discussed the tax on native coal, he said that last year Parliamert had voted £750,000 to the development of coal minos at two places on the West Coast. No doubt they would continue to help this industry in a legitimate way without the Treasurer telling them j ohe time would soon be at hand when they must tax the whole community to help local mine*. Personally he

did not beliere that the people would sub mit to a coal tax, and that sooner than do so they would shut up the mines on the West Coast. (Cheers.) A tax on coal would interfere with every industry in the colony, and impoverish every house. Then \ihat had been hie organip reform of the Council ? Eleven live Councillors had been appointed to limit the appointment of new members to ten years. (Laughter.) These new lords would not hare a happy time for some little time, for there was no constituency in the colony where the appointment was not a by-word and laughing stock. The reason of the decrease in Customs revenue as regarded the falling off in the consumption of spirits was, that the people now nad no money to spend in drink. He admitted that temperance reform had done something towards reducing the expenditure on drink, but that was a mere bagatelle compared with the enormous deorease in the spending habits of the people, owing to depressed times. He was a thorough free trader, and favoured the total abolishment of Customs duties, and said he believed if they were abolished, New Zealand in ten years' time'would be the greatest colony under British rule. In concluding his speech, which occupied an hour and forty minutes, he assured the Treasurer that knowing the country pretty well, and taking a duep interest in it, no policy had over been brought down which had caused so much anxiety and alarm, and he hoped it had not been criticised at unreasonable length. (Choers.) If a party question were involved.he should consider it his duty to ignore all party ties when a question involving such important lines as free trade and protection was involved. Mr Dargaville moved the adjournment of the debate till 7.30 on Tuesday, which was agreed to.